# Where do the kings of Norway come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800 "2011-10-16T07:09:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/21 "2011-10-16T20:10:40Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > That’s not outsourcing, it’s fractional ownership! And they’re never good deals. You know how it is; seems great at first and then you’re looking to unload it. In Canada people sometimes toss around the idea of Canada having its own monarchy, usually when there’s an available royal of two in Britain; back when Andrew and Sarah Ferguson were still married, for instance, some people proposed offering them the job. Since you could then get rid of the Governor-General, you wouldn’t even be increasing the payroll, at least initially. But now it seems obvious to me how Canada should get a new monarch; a reality show. Hold tryouts, have a panel of judges whittle it down to 16 finalists, and then run a season’s worth of shows where the Canadian public gets to vote some loser out of the palace every week. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/22 "2011-10-16T21:33:35Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Denmark or Sweden. Norway was in a dual-Kingdom with both at various times (but not at the same time!). > > Norway+Denmark 1536–1814 > Norway+Sweden 1814-1905 Nitpick: You forgot the [Kalmar union](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_union), Norway+Denmark+Sweden 1397-1523. Queen Margrete, the founder of the Kalmar union, was born Danish. Her successor, Erik of Pomerania, was Swedish. BTW, [here](http://www.citizendia.org/List_of_Norwegian_monarchs)’s a decent overview of the monarchs of Norway from 890 to today ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/23 "2011-10-16T22:16:44Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > BTW, [here](http://www.citizendia.org/List_of_Norwegian_monarchs)’s a decent overview of the monarchs of Norway from 890 to today Basically just a site that’s merely a dead Wikipedia monitor - the page you linked to was a 2009 copy of [this page](http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_norwegian_monarchs) (which I can’t see as any worse than the dead mirror link) ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/24 "2011-10-16T22:37:54Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] And naturally if you want a Mexican monarch, you fire off a letter to Austria, via France: [Maximilian I of Mexico - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximillian_I_of_Mexico) [/QUOTE] Which gets us back to outsourcing twice over: Maximillians wife was Charlotte of Belgium, daughter of the aforementioned Leopold I of Belgium. Now, Leopold was a younger prince from a small German state, but at the time, he was more or less a british royal. He was living in England, and had done so since he married the british Princess Charlotte, only child and heir to George IV. She of course died after the birth of a stillborn son (leading to the royal breeding competition which produced Victoria), and poor Leopold was left as a young widower, and somewhat of a royal red-headed step-child-in-law. Fun fact, he was twice offered the Greek crown, before accepting the Belgian offer. So, Charlotte of Mexico was a second generation royal import. The marriage of Charlotte and Leopold is a real-life tragic love-story. Leopold lived to old age, married again, had many childen, and ruled an entirely different country than his first wife would have. And yet, his last words were “Charlotte…Charlotte”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/25 "2011-10-16T22:42:45Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > The Dowager Countess Marie is given a pronounced russian accent, but in reality, she was danish, and her birthname was Dagmar. She spoke Russian very well, did she not? ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/26 "2011-10-16T22:52:38Z")
I assume so, but there is no reason to give her a pronounced russian accent when the other Russian characters don’t have one. Although this gives me an oportunity to point out that her father was Christian IX of Denmark, the aforementioned father-in-law of Europe. And she was a Dowager Empress, not Countess. Wrote too quickly there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/27 "2011-10-16T23:05:28Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > I assume so, but there is no reason to give her a pronounced russian accent when the other Russian characters don’t have one. Good point. I’ve not seen the animated thingie. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/28 "2011-10-16T23:45:30Z")
nitpick: it’s “King of the Belgians,” not King of Belgium. (a minor yet significant point, yet it takes nothing away from Albert’s reply to the Kaiser “I rule a nation, not a road!” as being one of the best fuck you’s in history.) ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/29 "2011-10-16T23:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] nitpick: it’s “King of the Belgians,” not King of Belgium. [/QUOTE] Of course it is. A hundred apologies. Would you mind writing out the story in full? I’ve not heard that one. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/30 "2011-10-17T00:21:46Z")
Albert I said this to his parliment, in response to German demands that Belgium allow their army free run to flank the French in 1914. The Germans reacted as if the Belgians had behaved like a besieged garrison that had refused an offer to surrender, and retaliated in the tradition of “no quarter.” Although they didn’t parade with Belgian babies on their bayonets as British propaganda claimed, the Germans did shoot civilian hostages when the Belgian army used sniping during rear-guard fighting. And the Germans methodically destroyed the university at Louvain “the Oxford of Belgium,” for no military purpose. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/31 "2011-10-17T00:32:30Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > …Actually, that’s the thing that annoys me the most about the animated “Anastasia”. The Dowager Countess Marie is given a pronounced russian accent, but in reality, she was danish, and her birthname was Dagmar. Just to prove my point, Tsarina Alexendra was Victorias grandaughter. Victoria grew up speaking German at home (a custom she maintained after marrying Albert) and had a pronounced German accent when she first came to the throne. The accent grew less pronounced as she got older, but she still had little quirks in her speech (like thing the word “news” was a plural). Her ancestor, King George I (the first Hanover monarch), never learned to speak English at all (which is why cabinet meetings started to be held without the monarch being present). > [@RickJay](#): > > …In Canada people sometimes toss around the idea of Canada having its own monarchy, usually when there’s an available royal of two in Britain; back when Andrew and Sarah Ferguson were still married, for instance, some people proposed offering them the job. Since you could then get rid of the Governor-General, you wouldn’t even be increasing the payroll, at least initially… Prince Charles wanted to become Governor-General of Australia back in the '80s; the Austalians weren’t very keen on it. Minor royals have served as viceroys in Australia & Canada before, but none of them were first in line to the throne. There was also that joke campaign to make Prince Edward the King of Latvia. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/32 "2011-10-17T00:36:15Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > (a minor yet significant point, yet it takes nothing away from Albert’s reply to the Kaiser “I rule a nation, not a road!” as being one of the best fuck you’s in history.) Albert was in combat, a machine gun unit unless I’m mistaken, and died after the war in a mountain climbing accident. Tough guy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/33 "2011-10-17T01:50:16Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > …Her ancestor, King George I (the first Hanover monarch), never learned to speak English at all… From Wiki, citing to Ragnhild Hatton’s _George I: Elector and King_ (Thames and Hudson 1978): “Though he was unpopular due to his supposed inability to speak English, such an inability may not have existed later in his reign as documents from that time show that he understood, spoke and wrote English. He certainly spoke fluent German and French, good Latin, and some Italian and Dutch.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/34 "2011-10-17T03:39:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Europe has a long and proud tradition of outsourcing royalty, mainly from Germany (kings and queens being among Germany’s chief exports). The Hanovers of Great Britain are the most famous example, but the phenomenon certainly wasn’t limited to them The Hanovers weren’t outsourced – they were next in line for the throne, after the Act of Settlement of 1701 forbade a Catholic from inheriting the throne. George I was the great-grandson of James I of England and VI of Scotland. So the Kings of Britain were monarchs of both Britain AND Hanover until Victoria, because Hanover followed the Salic law, and forbade a female monarch. So her uncle, the Duke of Cumberland became the King of Hanover. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/35 "2011-10-17T07:42:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Europe has a long and proud tradition of outsourcing royalty, mainly from Germany (kings and queens being among Germany’s chief exports). The Hanovers of Great Britain are the most famous example, but the phenomenon certainly wasn’t limited to them - for instance, when the Bulgarians achieved independence at the turn of the 20th Century, they immediately ordered a king from Vienna; the Austrians found one they weren’t using at the moment, and the Bulgarians crowned him Ferdinand I. The Greeks did something similar with their first king, Otto of Bavaria, as did the Belgians with Leopold I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. Spain tried it with Italian Amadeo I, as well; Isabel II had renounced her throne and fled the country, Parliament still wanted a king, they finally found someone who was willing to take the crown. The poor guy had a horrible situation to fight, as pretty much every established ideology was against him for some reason or other. Eventually he told us a somewhat more diplomatic equivalent of _vafanculo_ and returned to Italy; this led to the First Republic. Previously, or War of Succession had been caused when Charles II died without issue, two of his three kingdoms (Navarra and Aragon) came up with a different imported candidate for the throne, the third and biggest one (Castilla) couldn’t make up its collective mind, and the one thing nobody would even have considered for a moment was letting each kingdom go its separate way. Navarra had previously imported from France the first king of our second dinasty, Teobaldo I, when Sancho VII died without surviving issue. Sancho had wanted the throne to go to his nearest relative, who was the king of neighboring Aragon, but Parliament had a, uhm, momentary lapse of memory… “cousin, what cousin? I’m sure we can find some relative who isn’t already a king…” ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/36 "2011-10-17T09:34:56Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Some powerful Norwegians managed to force the situation to be a personal union between two theoretically equal nations, but the king who would sit on the throne of the two nations was the Swedish king. True. Each country had its own constitution, but we also shared foreign relations which means that the Norwegian foreign department was situated in Stockholm, not in Oslo (or rather Christiania, as the town was then called). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/37 "2011-10-17T13:22:54Z")
Don’t forget the English imported a half-king from The Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/38 "2011-10-17T13:38:48Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Don’t forget the English imported a half-king from The Netherlands. They didn’t so much import William III as look the other way while he conquered their country. “Imported” kings generally don’t come with an invading army. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/39 "2011-10-17T14:04:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They didn’t so much import William III as look the other way while he conquered their country. “Imported” kings generally don’t come with an invading army. King James II’s daughter and William III’s wife Mary said it was cool, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800/40 "2011-10-17T14:40:27Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Her ancestor, King George I (the first Hanover monarch), never learned to speak English at all (which is why cabinet meetings started to be held without the monarch being present). Reminds me of a quip in Neal Stephenson’s Baroque Cycle, the conclusion of which dovetails with the effort to place the Hanovers on the throne - Jack Shaftoe, one of the main characters, quips about wanting to find out if the next King of England will be French or German… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-the-kings-of-norway-come-from/599800.md?page=3)