# Where do you draw the line as to what is or is not cultural appropriation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2022, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360 "2022-09-28T05:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/301 "2022-10-18T00:16:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, but there are ignorant thoughtless fans as well as knowledgeable respectful fans. See, for example, my remark in post #137 about non-Christians choosing to wear crucifix jewelry as a fashion statement, which many Christians not unreasonably find inappropriate. > > You might be “taking on” a “cultural tradition or emblem”, albeit in an uninformed superficial way, because you sincerely like how it looks, or tastes, or whatever. In other words, you are honestly some sort of “fan” of the tradition or emblem in question, despite not really understanding its cultural significance. > > But that doesn’t mean that your use of the tradition or emblem can’t still be somewhat inappropriate or disrespectful. Even though your faux pas is due to mere cultural ignorance and naivete rather than any deliberate assholish intention to take over or make fun of the tradition or emblem. That’s just a ‘people be dumb’ problem. You gonna pass a law that says everyone has to be knowledgeable about everything? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/302 "2022-10-18T00:28:02Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > That’s just a ‘people be dumb’ problem. Yes. What I’m objecting to are efforts to pretend that “people be dumb” should be treated as some kind of noble and admirable principle in the cause of free speech, at least when it’s a matter of (usually) white people being dumb about other cultures. A lot of people, very naturally and understandably, start out dumb when it comes to other cultures’ traditional practices and symbols. A subset of those people are ignorant and lazy enough not to bother learning anything about the cultural significance of the traditional practices and symbols that they like well enough to adopt. And a subset of those people are touchy and selfish enough to get very miffed when someone tries to explain to them that their ignorant and lazy version of adopting this other culture’s traditional practice or symbol comes across as inappropriate to people who actually understand its significance. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/303 "2022-10-18T00:34:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > get very miffed when someone tries to explain to them that their ignorant and lazy version of adopting this People get miffed when someone calls them ignorant and lazy?! I am shocked. How can we stop this? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/304 "2022-10-18T00:41:32Z")
Note that I didn’t say that the people attempting the explanations were actually calling the ignorant and lazy people “ignorant and lazy”: that’s my own description of their behavior. As for what to do about it: well, I guess we could all try to be less ignorant and lazy about understanding other people’s cultures in the first place? And when we inevitably fall short of that ideal, we could try to be less touchy and selfish in interacting with the people whose cultural traditions we inadvertently treated disrespectfully due to our ignorance and laziness? Or, we could just swagger on in our ignorant lazy selfish complacency, reiterating that we can do whatever we want and it’s not our problem if anyone else finds it inappropriate. Many people certainly do seem to feel that that approach works for them, after all. But I question whether they have actually been as successful as they believe at staying clear of the “asshole” category. [ETA: Isamu’s quote of the second paragraph of this post in the following reply is not a misquote even though it’s not identical to the final form, I was still editing it while they were posting.] ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/305 "2022-10-18T00:42:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, I guess we could all try to be less ignorant and lazy in the first place? And when we inevitably fall short of that ideal, we could try to be less touchy and selfish in interacting with the people whose cultural traditions we inadvertently treated disrespectfully due to our ignorance and laziness? Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/306 "2022-10-18T01:18:09Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > You gonna pass a law that says everyone has to be knowledgeable about everything? Just wanna pull this out–nobody’s talking about passing a law. Folks are talking about criticizing other folks for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/307 "2022-10-18T07:06:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > when we inevitably fall short of that ideal, we could try to be less touchy and selfish in interacting with the people whose cultural traditions we inadvertently treated disrespectfully due to our ignorance and laziness? It goes both ways. People should be less touchy and selfish generally about the behaviour and practices of others when they don’t harm us or deprive us. Live and let live. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/308 "2022-10-18T11:45:01Z")
Once again, will just make this point - who gets to judge what constitutes “harm” and “deprivation” is often where this supposed “live and let live” facade is cracked. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/309 "2022-10-18T17:37:51Z")
We all get to judge for ourselves but we shouldn’t expect anyone else to agree with us when nothing material has been taken and the only “harm” is some subjective degree of offence. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/310 "2022-11-02T15:45:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Folks are talking about criticizing other folks for their actions. That’s how laws germinate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360/311 "2022-11-02T15:49:11Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > That’s how laws germinate. Slip on down that slope, why don’tcha, and realize that if it’s really that slippery, then you’re germinating a law against criticizing people for their actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-draw-the-line-as-to-what-is-or-is-not-cultural-appropriation/972360.md?page=15)