# Where do you keep a billion dollars? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278 "2010-11-29T14:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/81 "2010-12-02T08:13:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, his post is saying just the opposite, how ridiculous it is to assert that "you can walk into any store on Earth and barter in gold ", he is mocking another poster’s claim that gold can be used as currency. > > Obviously, it can’t. Sure, there are bullion exchanges where you can sell your gold bar. But no other business would accept it as a medium of exchange (you have to get it weighed and assayed). OTOH, you would actually have a better chance of selling a bar of copper- in a brief search, I found 4 bullion dealers in SF, and 12 scrap dealers. Of course, a gold \*coin \*could be sold at many coin shops and pawn dealers, perhaps even a jeweler. OK, in that case I didn’t get the irony in the posting I quoted. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/82 "2010-12-02T14:53:42Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > OK let me ask this, assuming all $100 bills, how big of a storage area would you need? > > $1,000,000,000 / $100 = 10,000,000 > > So that is 10 million one hundred dollar bills. > > Anyone want to figure out how big of a storage case you’d need? 🙂 It would be about 10 pallets cubed. > **[How much is a trillion dollars?](https://www.funny-potato.com/trillion-dollars.html)** > > How much is a trillion dollars? Pictures and information! ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/83 "2010-12-03T02:39:53Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > 1. Gold has been worthless before, and it can be worthless in many of the worst situations which people dream gold would be especially valuable in. Darn!! I missed that! Why didnt you call or write me? or at least send me an email that gold was worthless? I, personally, wanted to buy up, for myself, all of the gold in Fort Knox, and all of the gold reserves of the World Bank, France, Switzerland, China, and India whenever Gold traded below 1 cent for each 400 ounce gold bar. . ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/84 "2010-12-03T03:04:39Z")
If you start to corner the gold market, you will find that the rules of the game will be changed to block you, a la Hunt. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/85 "2010-12-03T03:24:28Z")
I have $100 trillion dollars in my safe downstairs. Real live 100 trillion dollar bill. From Zimbabwe. Genuine. It was a poor investment, but it’s good for a few yucks at parties. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/86 "2010-12-03T10:16:33Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Darn!! I missed that! > > Why didnt you call or write me? or at least send me an email that gold was worthless? > > I, personally, wanted to buy up, for myself, all of the gold in Fort Knox, and all of the gold reserves of the World Bank, France, Switzerland, China, and India whenever Gold traded below 1 cent for each 400 ounce gold bar. If you read **Martin** ’s post carefully, you might notice that he didn’t say gold is worthless now; he said that there have been times in the past when gold has been worthless, and that there is nothing that guarantees wuch times will not come back. This is in contradiction to your constantly repeated statements that gold will never be worthless, and that, even more, investment in gold outperforms investments in other assets. Care to address these points rather than scoffing at a statment nobody made? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/87 "2010-12-03T10:54:38Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > If you read **Martin** ’s post carefully, you might notice that he didn’t say gold is worthless now; he said that there have been times in the past when gold has been worthless, and that there is nothing that guarantees wuch times will not come back. This is in contradiction to your constantly repeated statements that gold will never be worthless, and that, even more, investment in gold outperforms investments in other assets. Care to address these points rather than scoffing at a statment nobody made? Not to mention that even if civilization had _issues_ and money became essentially worthless, or war breaks out you will always find someone willing to trade something you need for identifiable high karat gold, like baht jewelry, ingots or noted coinage like keugerands, maples and such. Individual people will continue to value identifiable gold [not everybody keeps a touchstone around] Why do you think that many nomadic cultures used jinglies on clothing and jewelry as a bank? You can always peel some off to pay for something in an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/88 "2010-12-03T14:03:55Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > If you read **Martin** ’s post carefully, you might notice that he didn’t say gold is worthless now; he said that there have been times in the past when gold has been worthless, I KNOW!!! gold is not worthless now! But everyone knows I love gold, and I am mad that he did not give me the courtesy of calling me or emailing me when it was worthless so I could buy up tens of thousands of tons of gold. It doesnt do any good to tell me today that gold was worthless yesterday, and that yesterday I could have gotten all the gold I wanted for free. Frankly, I dont remember gold ever being “free”, certainly not this year or last year, and I dont really believe him…perhaps THAT is why he never called me. If you dont tell me TODAY, I.E. the EXACT day that it is free when I can go out and get it all, then your credibility is zero. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/89 "2010-12-03T14:11:04Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I have $100 trillion dollars in my safe downstairs. Real live 100 trillion dollar bill. From Zimbabwe. Genuine. It was a poor investment, but it’s good for a few yucks at parties. You dont have “a $100 trillion dollars”. What you have is just a colorful worthless piece of paper but like ALL paper fiat money in world history, it is, or will become… worthless. That includes the current United States Federal Reserve notes , of which we are running the money printing presses 24 hours a day printing trillions and trillions and trillions of them. Paper is not **gold**. Federal Reserve notes are not gold. (Now, on the other hand, if you had a trillion ounces of gold in your basement, THAT! would be something to perk up my ears) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/90 "2010-12-03T14:17:43Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If you start to corner the gold market, you will find that the rules of the game will be changed to block you, a la Hunt. I will take that chance. Give me all the gold that you have. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/91 "2010-12-03T14:33:04Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Give me all the gold that you have. If you had owned gold since 1990, you would have only earned an average of 1% per year. And that’s only with the rally of the 9 years. During the period from 1990-2001, you would have lost about 5.5% per year. Gold is reaching a bubble again. The real question is what is the goal of the holder of the billion $. Is it earnings and growth, capital preservation and/or purchasing power optimization? Depending upon that answer, the investment strategy would be vary greatly. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/92 "2010-12-03T14:41:18Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > What you have is just a colorful worthless piece of paper but like ALL paper fiat money in world history, it is, or will become… worthless. That is a bold and exceedingly vague statement to come from somebody who expected “the EXACT day” of gold becoming worthless, yet fails to give “the EXACT day” of fiat money becoming worthless. By the way, last time I used fiat money (which was a twenty euro banknote), it was not at all worthless, and I received services with an intrinsic value in exchange for it. Of course, you are going to reply that last time you checked gold was trading at a positive value, and you’d ge right. What I’d be interested to know is what is so magical about gold that makes it uniquely immune to all the conceivable future events that would render fiat money worthless. Of course, central banks can theoretically issue infinite amounts of fiat money, whereas the gold supply cannot be arbitrarily increased; but the same goes for all sorts of other commodities, from wheat and sugar up to coal, iron, steel, copper, or bauxite. What does gold have that no other commodity in the world has? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/93 "2010-12-03T16:45:36Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > I will take that chance. > > Give me all the gold that you have. Ok, tell us are you IN or OUT of the gold market currently? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/94 "2010-12-03T18:12:09Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Darn!! I missed that! > > Why didnt you call or write me? or at least send me an email that gold was worthless? > > I, personally, wanted to buy up, for myself, all of the gold in Fort Knox, and all of the gold reserves of the World Bank, France, Switzerland, China, and India whenever Gold traded below 1 cent for each 400 ounce gold bar. > > . Wasn’t there a Scrooge McDuck comic where Scrooge was stranded in the desert and some wiseacre made him pay a trillion dollars for a canteen of water? ETA: **and** McDuck somehow ended up getting his money back? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/95 "2010-12-03T19:43:57Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > If you had owned gold since 1990, you would have only earned an average of 1% per year. And that’s only with the rally of the 9 years. During the period from 1990-2001, you would have lost about 5.5% per year. > > Gold is reaching a bubble again. > > The real question is what is the goal of the holder of the billion $. Is it earnings and growth, capital preservation and/or purchasing power optimization? > > Depending upon that answer, the investment strategy would be vary greatly. I already told you, I personally sold gold when it looked like Reagan would get elected back in 2000, then I bought back and I bought a lot more gold when bush2 got elected in 2000, then I bought some more when it looked like obama would get elected. I may not sell until you balance the budget and until you manufacture enough to balance exports with imports in the United States, or until it looks like somebody fiscally responsible like Sarah Palin is going to be elected. The purpose of gold, esp. AT THE CURRENT time, is mostly \*\*to preserve wealth - which is the primary goal of the OP!!! . \*\* Gold is bought and held in times of crises when people of a country have an uncertain future, e.g people in Germany after WW1, people in the Confederacy in the 1860’s, people in Russia during ww1, people in Iceland and Zimbabway just a couple of years ago, people in the United States when bush and obama got elected, etc. As long as you continue to keep running trillion dollar deficits in the federal budget in addition to half trillion dollar deficits in the United States balance of payments, then gold should be held by Americans, not pieces of paper printed by the Federal Reserve. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/96 "2010-12-03T20:07:49Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > I personally sold gold when it looked like Reagan would get elected back in 2000. Was that Jimmy Reagan running for mayor of your hometown? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/97 "2010-12-03T20:14:17Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > IThe purpose of gold, esp. AT THE CURRENT time, is mostly \*\*to preserve wealth - which is the primary goal of the OP!!! Actually gold is not the best investment to retain preserve capital. There is greater risk that gold will devalue than there is that the US government will default on its debt. This is why US Treasury bonds are the primary reserve currency of sovereign governments, that invest significantly more than 1 billion. The US is not without risk, but I would say that it is less risky than the value of gold. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/98 "2010-12-03T20:37:43Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann I personally sold gold when it looked like Reagan would get elected back in 2000. > [@Wilbo523](#): > > Was that Jimmy Reagan running for mayor of your hometown? NO, **Ronald** Reagan. 1980. It was **1980** that I sold my gold that I had bought 9 years earlier in 1971. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/99 "2010-12-03T20:44:17Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Actually gold is not the best investment to retain preserve capital. There is greater risk that gold will devalue than there is that the US government will default on its debt. This is why US Treasury bonds are the primary reserve currency of sovereign governments, that invest significantly more than 1 billion. The US is not without risk, but I would say that it is less risky than the value of gold. OK, we disagree. You, of course, are in the majority. Well over 99% of Americans hold paper, not gold. Just about everybody is holding paper. YOu are in the crowd. Very, very few hold gold. As for me, let me know when the US stops running trillion dollar deficits, let me know when the US balances its federal budget, let me know when the US starts paying off its federal debt, and let me know when the US starts running surpluses in its foreign trade balance of payments. I think I made some good decisions about gold in 1971, 1980, and 2001. I am doing ok. Until then, and unless Sarah Palin gets elected, you can hold your (Federal Reserve) paper, and I will hold my heavy, pretty, yellow gold. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/100 "2010-12-03T20:59:06Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > OK, we disagree. You, of course, are in the majority. Well over 99% of Americans hold paper, not gold. Just about everybody is holding paper. YOu are in the crowd. > > Very, very few hold gold. > > As for me, let me know when the US stops running trillion dollar deficits, let me know when the US balances its federal budget, let me know when the US starts paying off its federal debt, and let me know when the US starts running surpluses in its foreign trade balance of payments. I think I made some good decisions about gold in 1971, 1980, and 2001. I am doing ok. > > Until then, and unless Sarah Palin gets elected, you can hold your (Federal Reserve) paper, and I will hold my heavy, pretty, yellow gold. You have done very well in your investment. And you timed the gold markets right. But that’s not what the OP was asking. You were able to exit the gold markets when prior to gold prices falling. The fact that gold loses it’s value means that it is not a good risk free investment. You are not following a risk free capital preservation strategy, you are timing the commodity market, and successfully so. There’s a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278.md?page=6)