# Where do you keep a billion dollars? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278 "2010-11-29T14:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/121 "2010-12-07T19:08:55Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Susanann refuses to answer any direct, factual questions. This is her SOP. Go look at any of the threads she’s participated in in which finance or gold arises. She makes the same tired claims, and ignores the same obvious refutations. But I’m still totally convinced by the power of her exclamation points!!! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/122 "2010-12-07T19:18:23Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Oh, puleeeeeze! > > It is hard, for me, or anyone else, to believe you when you say that you wrote an academic dissertation about anything, since: > (1) you dont read very well, > (2)you dont comprehend what is written, > (3)you dont understand what could even possible logically, physically, or legally, > (4)you are unaware of the exchange rate of gold in the United States. > [@Susanann](#): > > If you really want to keep naming names, then we can safely say that **Martin Hyde** does not understand the OP question of: **where is it safer than a savings account to store a billion dollars if you dont care about growing the money?** …today, in this world, in today’s economy near collapse, with todays federal debt, with the US dollar near collapse, with todays euro in trouble, with unemployment the highest its been since the Great Depression, with multiple trillions of dollars in annual federal budget deficits and huge deficits in our balance of trade. > > Besides not understanding the question, and besides not answering the question, Martin Hyde does not understand the simplest answers already given. > > Martin Hyde does not even understand what he himself is saying. > > I think we could fill the navel of a flea with what Martin Hyde understands, and STILL have room for a Hummer!! [Moderator Note] Let’s dial it back here. Please make your points without getting personal. This goes for everyone. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/123 "2010-12-07T19:51:09Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > If you really want to keep naming names, then we can safely say that **Martin Hyde** does not understand the OP question of: **where is it safer than a savings account to store a billion dollars if you dont care about growing the money?** …today, in this world, in today’s economy near collapse, with todays federal debt, with the US dollar near collapse, with todays euro in trouble, with unemployment the highest its been since the Great Depression, with multiple trillions of dollars in annual federal budget deficits and huge deficits in our balance of trade. Obviously, the OP is kind of a ridiculous hypothetical, but do you seriously think that personally holding 25 tons of gold is safer than putting a billion dollars in treasury bills or a bank account or series of bank accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/124 "2010-12-07T20:29:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Obviously, the OP is kind of a ridiculous hypothetical, but do you seriously think that personally holding 25 tons of gold is safer than putting a billion dollars in treasury bills or a bank account or series of bank accounts? “Who” the heck is going to default on gold? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/125 "2010-12-07T20:33:43Z")
I was thinking more about the dangers of the 25 tons of gold being stolen than it defaulting. (There’s also the transportation costs if you need to move it around. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/126 "2010-12-07T20:46:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I was thinking more about the dangers of the 25 tons of gold being stolen than it defaulting. (There’s also the transportation costs if you need to move it around. Do you know how hard it is to steal 25 tons of anything? First, you say it might get stolen, next, you complain how hard it is to move it. Dont you think the theives would have a hard time moving it? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/127 "2010-12-07T20:48:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Obviously, the OP is kind of a ridiculous hypothetical, but do you seriously think that personally holding 25 tons of gold is safer than putting a billion dollars in treasury bills or a bank account or series of bank accounts? What do you think are the chances of the US dollar losing its purchasing power in the future? 1. 1%? b. 10%? c. 100%? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/128 "2010-12-07T21:17:31Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Obviously, the OP is kind of a ridiculous hypothetical, but do you seriously think that personally holding 25 tons of gold is safer than putting a billion dollars in treasury bills or a bank account or series of bank accounts? 1. Have you ever heard of a company going bankrupt and its stock becoming worthless? 2. In all of world history, have you ever heard of a country, any country, defaulting, resulting in its currency, AND its bonds becoming worthless? 3. How many more banks have to fail before the FDIC runs completely out of funds to cover bank deposits all across America? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/129 "2010-12-08T15:48:37Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > It is hard, for me, or anyone else, to believe you when you say that you wrote an academic dissertation about anything, since: > (1) you dont read very well, > (2)you dont comprehend what is written, > (3)you dont understand what could even possible logically, physically, or legally, > (4)you are unaware of the exchange rate of gold in the United States. > > Obviously, if I went to the bank and gave them a $20 bill and they gave me a 1 ounce gold double eagle, then **it HAD!!! to be before 1933!!!** > > The exchange rate of gold changed after 1933 , and secondly, after 1933 the banks did not exchange gold for paper since it became illegal for such transactions to occur at a bank. > > It also had to be AFTER 1849, since double eagles did not even exist until 1849. Therefore, even a grade school child would have sense enough to know that a $20 gold double eagle could have been exchangeable for a $20 bill, \*\*ONLY!!! \*\*from 1849 thru 1932. > > Why is that so hard for you to understand? > > …and yes, virtually any bank teller at virtually any bank would exchange gold or silver for paper money, on demand. I also got lots of silver all the way thru 1964 and got a ton(well, maybe not quite a ton) of silver dollars in exchange for my paper money back then. I might be unable to read or understand written material, but at least I know how to calculate. The period you’re referring to now, 1849-1932, spans 83 years. But you were referring to 150 years (and in other posts 180 years), during which you could “walk into any bank in America” and redeem your paper for gold. Which period were you referring to then? Or is it maybe, remotely, slightly possible that you didn’t have a clue about how the American currency really worked before 1971 when you were talking about 150 or 180 years, and that now, having been informed about the post-1933 situation, retroactively adjusted your position to appear as if you had know it already, having looked up the coinage periods of the double eagle in [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_eagle)? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/130 "2010-12-08T19:08:46Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Do you know how hard it is to steal 25 tons of anything? I want to avoid getting too involved in this thread, but at $1380 per ounce, loss as a function of thief’s muscle power is an argument _against_ gold, not in favor of it! True, 25 tons is a lot, but if the gold is stealable at all I’ll just steal a few kilograms per day, and encourage my friends to do the same. If high weight is key to our investment idea, perhaps 112,000 tons of copper makes more sense than 25 tons of gold. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/131 "2010-12-08T20:15:03Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > What do you think are the chances of the US dollar losing its purchasing power in the future? > > 1. 1%? > > b. 10%? > > c. 100%? The chances of the dollar losing purchasing power is greatly less than the chances that the value of gold will fall below its current trading price. But nobody is suggesting that the the OP keep a large pile of cash. The chances of a AAA-rated bond losing value over the next several years is minimal, and once again, the chances of gold losing value over the next several years is much, much, much higher. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/132 "2010-12-08T20:35:30Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Savings accounts of a $ billion dollars are not insured by the FDIC. > > IF the United States defaults on its currency, then holding bonds, or any dollar denominated asset would cause you to go bankrupt. > > IF the world economy goes into a Depression, then stocks would nosedive. > > **Gold:** On the other hand, a billion dollars in gold will hold its value and will survive currency defaults,wars, revolutions, Depressions, disease, and anything and everything else that we have seen in the past 5000 years. > > A billion dollars in gold is still a pretty physical small package. Yes…but gold can be stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/133 "2010-12-08T21:03:41Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > **Gold:** On the other hand, a billion dollars in gold will hold its value If you had bought a billion $ worth of gold in January 1980 @ $850 an ounce and then in January 2003 you needed cash and sold your gold @ $350 an ounce, you would have lost more than $588 million. Doesn’t sound like it holds it value. Sounds like it’s a commodity product that has price volatility. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/134 "2010-12-09T06:02:58Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > If you had bought a billion $ worth of gold in January 1980 @ $850 an ounce and then in January 2003 you needed cash and sold your gold @ $350 an ounce, you would have lost more than $588 million. Doesn’t sound like it holds it value. Sounds like it’s a commodity product that has price volatility. And precisely because of this price volatility, a statement like “a billion dollars in gold will always have its value” is nonsense. You don’t own “a billion dollars in gold” as a constant; what you own is a particular quantity of gold, and that quantity might be worth a billion dollars at a given time according to current market prices. It might also be worth more or less, but there’s no guarantee its value remains a billion. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/135 "2010-12-09T15:00:31Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > If you had bought a billion $ worth of gold in \*\*January 1980 @ $850 an ounce \*\*and then in January 2003 you needed cash and sold your gold @ $350 an ounce, you would have lost more than $588 million. Doesn’t sound like it holds it value. Sounds like it’s a commodity product that has price volatility. 1. Gold traded above $800 an ounce for only, exactly, just\*\* “2” days\*\* in 1980. Do you know how many actual people in the entire world, who never bought gold before, nor ever again bought gold since, bought gold ONLY in those 2 specific days in 1980? Nobody. Your premise of someone buying gold on those 2 days back in 1980, and who never bought gold before those 2 days, and never bought gold ever again, is a false premise because nobody actually did it. You cannot come up with a single name of anyone who did this, because nobody did. How many currency traders, who never bought or sold foreign currency before in their life, suddenly put their entire life savings into buying the German mark back in November 1923, and only in November 1923? Nobody. 1. Besides, in late 1979 and early 1980, there was no “guarantee” that Reagan would get elected. The world was falling apart, and if Carter had been re-elected then gold probably would have went to well over $20,000 an ounce. The horrors of Carter being president for another 4 more years would be something akin to looking at 4 more years of obama/Pelosi. You are ignoring 20,000 years of basic constant value of gold, and trying to focus on just 2 days in America when Americans thought the world was coming to an end…not unlike just looking at the price of gold in terms of German marks back in November 1923. Anyone who excludes 20,000 years of historical valuation of gold and instead argues for comparing the price of gold in American dollars on January 18, 1980 or in German marks in November 1923, is deliberately trying to mislead. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/136 "2010-12-09T15:10:57Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > 1. Gold traded above $800 an ounce for only, exactly, just\*\* “2” days\*\* in 1980. Do you know how many actual people in the entire world, who never bought gold before, nor ever again bought gold since, bought gold ONLY in those 2 specific days in 1980? Nobody. Your premise of someone buying gold on those 2 days back in 1980, and who never bought gold before those 2 days, and never bought gold ever again, is a false premise because nobody actually did it. You cannot come up with a single name of anyone who did this, because nobody did. Well, _some_ people must have done it, or otherwise the price quotation could not have arisen - commodity markets (just like stock markets or forex markets) quote as prices simply the last price at which transactions in the respective traded good were conducted by market participants. So even if the period we’re looking at is just two days, the number of people who bought gold during that period is larger than zero. I agree this is pedantic, but I wanted to add some variety to the constant challenges on the obvious weakness of your point - namely, that the 1980 example as such is totally immaterial, it’s just an _example_ for the existing (both theoretically and practically) possibility of gold prices rising and changing. Would you be so kind to give me an answer to my posts #129 and #134? I would really like to hear what you have to say about it. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/137 "2010-12-09T15:21:46Z")
(Another weakness in your argument in the post I cited is a recurrent theme in this thread as well, btw: You keep making quantitative statements - such as “nobody actually bought gold during those two days in 1980” - without backing them up with any source whatsoever. You just present claims and statements, that’s it. Nobody can be sure you’re not just making up your statements out of thin air - and in fact, I suppose that’s what most people here beside you started thinking quite a while ago.) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/138 "2010-12-09T15:33:28Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Yes…but gold can be stolen. So? Anything can be stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/139 "2010-12-09T15:50:41Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > (Another weakness in your argument in the post I cited is a recurrent theme in this thread as well, btw: You keep making quantitative statements - such as “nobody actually bought gold during those two days in 1980” - without backing them up with any source whatsoever. You just present claims and statements, that’s it. Nobody can be sure you’re not just making up your statements out of thin air - and in fact, I suppose that’s what most people here beside you started thinking quite a while ago.) Boo. Sorry. On the contrary, it is up to YOU to find SOMEBODY who never bought gold before nor since, but who DID buy gold, ONLY, on those 2 days in January of 1980. What I said is more akin to saying nobody has been thru the Black Hole of another galaxy and came back. It does not exist. Therefore, it is up to YOU to find, identify, and prove that somebody, anybody, from earth went thru a Black Hole and came back just in time to buy gold for the first and last time back on January 21, 1980. Finally, quit trying to hijack the thread, and get back on the subject or start a different topic. Anyone who wants to post to this topic, should have sense enough to know that prices of EVERYTHING can fluctuate in terms of different currencies. The OP was not asking where to put a billion dollars where there will not be any daily price FLUCUATION in terms of the Euro, dollar, or beaded shells. If you want to talk about publicly traded companies going bankrupt, about stocks becoming worthless, currencies becoming worthless, governments defaulting on its bonds, then ok, but whether or not the Dow went up or down 20 points yesterday, or if the daily price of gold is up or down in terms of Rubles is off the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278/140 "2010-12-09T15:56:57Z")
Perhaps more relevent than the price of gold in dollars (since the whole point of the debate is abandoning dollars for gold) would be the worth of gold against a price index for various goods- food, fuel, etc. In particular I remember reading a claim that despite the skyrocketing price (in dollars) of both gold and petroleum, the amount of gold necessary to buy a barrel of crude oil has remained remarkably consistant for decades. True or false? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-you-keep-a-billion-dollars/562278.md?page=8)