# Where does a reasonable inference end and fanwankery begin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 15, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914 "2004-08-15T04:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/21 "2004-08-16T18:40:23Z")
I hope this isn’t too vague, but there’s almost an Occam’s Razor-like point at which a reasonably intelligent moviegoer will come to one conclusion and a wanking fan will come to another, usually because said fan’s expectations are projected onto the movie - so it _has_ to be really deep and really good, and if other people don’t see it it’s because they don’t understand or haven’t done enough research, not because the filmmaker might have done something wrong. The biggest instance of fanwanking I can think of is this (paraphrased) discussion from after _The Phantom Menace_ came out. Friend: I wonder if Darth Sidious and the Emperor/Senator Palpatine are the same person. Me: They obviously are. They’re played by the same actor, look and sound alike, and there’s no reason to think they’re not the same guy. Use some common sense. Friend: But- no- we don’t know! I mean, there’s no proof, you’re just assuming! Me: You’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/22 "2004-08-16T19:15:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Friend: I wonder if Darth Sidious and the Emperor/Senator Palpatine are the same person. > Me: They obviously are. They’re played by the same actor, look and sound alike, and there’s no reason to think they’re not the same guy. Use some common sense. > Friend: But- no- we don’t know! I mean, there’s no proof, you’re just assuming! > Me: You’re an idiot. hee hee! Very funny. Bottom line: If a smart person who likes to discuss and debate a variety of topics, but _doesn’t know a thing_ about the topic being fanboy’d (or 'girl’d) can’t participate in the discussion and find it interesting, you’re wanking. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/23 "2004-08-16T21:07:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Friend: I wonder if Darth Sidious and the Emperor/Senator Palpatine are the same person. > Me: They obviously are. They’re played by the same actor, look and sound alike, and there’s no reason to think they’re not the same guy. Use some common sense. > Friend: But- no- we don’t know! I mean, there’s no proof, you’re just assuming! > Me: You’re an idiot. But the Emperor could have been an evil clone of Palpatine, and Darth Vader could have been an evil clone of Anakin, right? And let’s not even start on Klingons and forehead ridges. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/24 "2004-08-16T21:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Futile Gesture] Anything that takes events in Star Wars seriously is fanwankery. But as a series of films it does seem to attract this. People who believe that Lucas had an entire biblically proportioned saga planned out from day one; multi-themed, detailed and allegorically deep./QUOTE] Your post made me recall an incident I had several years ago (pre-Phantom Menace) wherein I worked with a pair of Star Wars geeks in their purest, most unadulterated forms. At one point, as these two fanboys were dissecting the “overall story arc of the planned nine story cycle” - I dared to point out (IMO) a glaring fly in the ointment of that theory. In “Star Wars” (the true original FIRST movie), Luke is obviously supposed to have the hots for Leia: he is awestruck by her holographic image; and when he does his “Errol Flynn” impression, swinging over the great Death Star chasm, Leia gives him “a kiss, for luck!” It is one of those “Big Hollywood Screen Kiss” (full on the lips) moment - the kind that only happens between two characters who are supposed to be romantically involved. Two pictures later, they are brother & sister! I doubt very much that Lucas would have written in that Big Screen Kiss moment if he really intended them to be siblings from the start. Anyway, I mentioned this fact to my co-workers as evidence that Lucas reworked things a bit in the sequels. Well! I had never before seen saw people literally froth at the mouth as they did. They both turned beet red in anger by the idea. Their argument can best be summarized by saying “THAT WAS ONLY A LITTLE KISS, IT DIDN’T ME ANYTHING!!!” They abjectly refused to discuss anything about Star Wars with me for the rest of the time I worked there. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/25 "2004-08-16T21:58:37Z")
> [@LifeSizePotato](#): > > Apparently a lot of Donnie Darko has to be explained by the crazy old lady’s book, which is mentioned but the contents aren’t really discussed in the movie. On the DVD though are excerpts from it that make the movie much clearer. haha. That’s the very movie I was thinking of when I made my earlier post in this thread. I even started to give an example using it, but decided that I couldn’t frame it the way I wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/26 "2004-08-16T23:16:43Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > They abjectly refused to discuss anything about Star Wars with me for the rest of the time I worked there. So your plan worked perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/27 "2004-08-16T23:44:17Z")
Actually, I do pay attention to what the director says in the commentary. If he says there’s an explanation (they cut a scene and the continuity was messed up, someone had to loop a line, there wasn’t enough money) for any given glitch in a film, I take that on board to some small degree. Why? Because knowing there is a director helps me remember that this film was a _made thing._ It was not a magical silver window into a Story That Really Happened, it was a bunch of guys standing around on a sound stage with some equipment and a dog-eared set of hand-revised script pages trying to put together a story in a hundred separate pieces the wrong way round. So if the director’s commentary says, “Oops, you know, I never noticed that God had three fingers in this scene,” I say, “Ah, a peek behind the curtain. It is now up to me to ignore this glitch, if I can.” I agree, however, that if the director had felt it important that the God Of The Eight Fingers glitch should be explained to the audience then he’d have done it in the context of the film itself. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914/28 "2004-08-16T23:53:45Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > So your plan worked perfectly. Indeed it did. Unfortunately, I could never get the trekkie who worked there to shut up. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-a-reasonable-inference-end-and-fanwankery-begin/259914.md?page=1)