# Where does the archetypical coffin shape come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096 "2008-08-24T13:53:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/1 "2008-08-24T13:53:32Z")
The title basically says it all – [this shape](http://mistressjewelry.com/images/catalog%20coffin.jpg) is nearly universally recognized as ‘coffin’; in fact, when you just saw that picture, you’ll likely have thought ‘coffin’ before thinking ‘tacky piece of jewellery’, it’s just – at least in my perception – that ubiquitous a shape. But where does it actually come from? Coffins today – again, at least as far as I know – are a much more rectangular affair, and most of the depictions of coffins of yesteryear I can recall also showed simple boxes, and when the ‘coffin shape’ is used, it’s mostly in a humorous context. So, was this coffin shape ever actually used for coffins? How did it become such an immediately recognizable form? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/2 "2008-08-24T14:11:43Z")
I can’t answer where it came from but, I’ve seen many coffins made in that shape. Mostly hand made ones in the developoing world. My WAG is that it’s pretty to make such a coffin with a few planks. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/3 "2008-08-24T14:34:01Z")
I would think they come from the fact that your shoulders are wider then your feet. Also, from what I’ve learned from friends in the industry, there are coffins and caskets, one is the shape you are referring to, the othe is rectangular, but I never remember which is which. I also remember being told that in other countries they tend to use the shape you pictured in the OP. (I only heard that becuase my friend was talking about the difficulty she was having trying to get a body shipped from Australia and something about they only have coffin carriers for the airplane, but they needed a casket carrier or vice versa.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/4 "2008-08-24T14:48:41Z")
It is an older style called a “toe pincher”, and they are [still available today](http://www.vintagecoffins.com/Pages-Toepinchers/ToePincher-Index.html). Even coffins go in and out of fashion. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/5 "2008-08-24T15:04:56Z")
Coffins I’ve seen looked like the picture you linked to. Maybe coffins’ shape vary regionally? ---
**Author:** ![Juliette\_Culture\_Junkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5fc32e/32.png) [@Juliette\_Culture\_Junkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juliette_Culture_Junkie)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/6 "2008-08-24T17:14:23Z")
I’ve actually seen them here in New England during a burial relocation. They dated to c. 1900. The coffins were pretty much gone, but you could clearly see the toe-pincher outline when the ground was scraped. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/7 "2008-08-24T17:35:30Z")
Googling “coffins” turns quite a lot of images of traditionnally-shaped coffins. (It also led me to a website whose author argues that New-Zealand was originally populated by Europeans of Celtic culture, hunted down to extinction by the Maoris) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/8 "2008-08-25T10:36:57Z")
From at least the 1350s until the end of the 16th c. the normal type of coffin was a narrow shallow box no more than about 18" wide and tapering towards the foot. It was slightly shallower than the corpse’s head, necessitating a gabled lid (or pitched roof, if you prefer). From around 1575 the ‘pinched in at the shoulders’ shape began to appear. Flat lids appeared in the 1590s and became popular in the 1670s. A coffin was a status symbol - only rich people could afford to be buried in one. Poor people were buried in shrouds. Most parishes owned a reusable parish coffin in which the corpse was taken to the grave and then lifted out, and some of these parish coffins still survive. Coffins were made by the local carpenter or joiner - undertaker as a profession didn’t appear until the second half of the 17th c. (See J Huggett, _The Shaking of the Sheets; Death 1350-1660_ ISBN 1 8504 109 0) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/9 "2008-08-25T11:46:13Z")
My father was buried in a coffin-shaped coffin. I seem to recall when my cousin was lying -in-state it was in a casket, because my cousins were always posher than us (though I may be misremembering, it was nearly 30 years ago). ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/10 "2008-08-25T15:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] From at least the 1350s until the end of the 16th c. the normal type of coffin was a narrow shallow box no more than about 18" wide and tapering towards the foot. It was slightly shallower than the corpse’s head, necessitating a gabled lid (or pitched roof, if you prefer). From around 1575 the ‘pinched in at the shoulders’ shape began to appear. Flat lids appeared in the 1590s and became popular in the 1670s. A coffin was a status symbol - only rich people could afford to be buried in one. Poor people were buried in shrouds. Most parishes owned a reusable parish coffin in which the corpse was taken to the grave and then lifted out, and some of these parish coffins still survive. Coffins were made by the local carpenter or joiner - undertaker as a profession didn’t appear until the second half of the 17th c. (See J Huggett, _The Shaking of the Sheets; Death 1350-1660_ ISBN 1 8504 109 0) [/QUOTE] That’s pretty much what I was looking for. Thanks a lot, and thanks to everybody else as well! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/11 "2008-08-25T17:27:28Z")
I suspect part of the reason was that you’d need fewer long boards to make the archetypal shape. If you were making a straight-rectangular coffin, you’d either need longer boards to stretch from end to end, or vertical bracing where you joined the shorter boards together. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/12 "2008-08-25T17:33:20Z")
My grandfather built the traditional toe pincher coffins for the military during World War I. (He was a GI himself and when his arches fell they assigned him to a carpentry division.) He said it was because of the “one size fits all” shape- the wider top allows the arms to be crossed, and if the person was fat at the midsection or if the body should swell due to gases, it allowed for it. A straight box could have problems, especially if the body was moved around at all. For the military they made two sizes- regular (men up to about 6’0) and a far lesser number of XLs (which would accomodate somebody up to about 6 1/2 feet tall). In civilian usage there were about 5 sizes from infant to XL. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/13 "2008-08-26T13:59:51Z")
In Gene Wolfe’s _The Book of the Long Sun_, this question was brought up. The reason for the shape was so that once the coffin was closed, you could tell which way up the body was. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/14 "2008-08-26T14:02:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] (See J Huggett, _The Shaking of the Sheets; Death 1350-1660_ ISBN 1 8504 109 0) [/QUOTE] Do you actually _own_ that book? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/15 "2008-08-26T14:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I suspect part of the reason was that you’d need fewer long boards to make the archetypal shape. If you were making a straight-rectangular coffin, you’d either need longer boards to stretch from end to end, or vertical bracing where you joined the shorter boards together. [/QUOTE] There’s also an efficiency of material because each of the four corners of the rectangle are clipped. My quick math says that a coffin-shaped coffin 72" long and 30" wide, with the “head” and “foot” ends 12" narrower than at the “shoulder” and the “shoulder” 12" from the “head” end will have a perimeter of a little under 147.5" whereas a rectangle 72" by 30" would have a perimter of 204". That’s a difference of over 4 and a half feet. ---
**Author:** ![goodie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@goodie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goodie)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/16 "2008-08-27T16:16:36Z")
The less need for long boards and the knowing which way the body was pointed make sense. I might also suggest that the more traditional coffin shape comes from the general outline of a sarcophagus? Also you might want a “singular use” box, to make the whole funeral ceremony more special, you would want a loved one to be buried publicly in a container that was clearly made only for that purpose, you would not use a coffin shaped box to ship widgets in. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/17 "2008-08-27T16:45:58Z")
Those are all excellent points, folks, thanks to all. Especially the ‘to know which way was up’ is so simple that it just makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/18 "2008-08-27T17:45:37Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] It is an older style called a “toe pincher”, and they are [still available today](http://www.vintagecoffins.com/Pages-Toepinchers/ToePincher-Index.html). [/QUOTE] Now how can they be vintage coffins if they’re made new? What about the panache of a used vintage coffin? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/19 "2008-08-27T18:08:09Z")
[QUOTE=goodie] The less need for long boards and the knowing which way the body was pointed make sense. I might also suggest that the more traditional coffin shape comes from the general outline of a sarcophagus? [/QUOTE] I doubt it, because it would have required some sort of continued tradition for a very long time. And sarcophagus from, for instance, the Merovingian era were often simply rectangular stone “boxes”. ---
**Author:** ![paffinity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@paffinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paffinity)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096/20 "2008-08-27T23:14:38Z")
I’ve noticed that the toe pincher coffins seem to resemble a cross whose lines are connected. Could there be some Christian symbolism at play? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-archetypical-coffin-shape-come-from/461096.md?page=2)