# Where does the expression 'swing a cat around' come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428 "2001-01-10T23:43:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wytehawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Wytehawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wytehawk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/1 "2001-01-10T23:43:18Z")
I have heard the expression used when talking about a small room or similar, ie: “Not enough room to swing a cat around”, but have never been able to find out where the saying originated. ---
**Author:** ![wolf189](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@wolf189](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf189)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/2 "2001-01-10T23:52:40Z")
Not sure but I’m thinking that whoever originated the term had never tried to swing a cat before thinking it up or they wouldn’t have been around to come up with the statement. wolf189 (possessed of a healthy respect for the little fuzzballs) ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/3 "2001-01-10T23:54:30Z")
It comes from a short lash, often used in early naval discipline. As in a cat o’ nine tails. Sorry, but I’m too lazy to look up a cite right now. That leaves my explanation woefully open to dispute. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/4 "2001-01-11T01:23:01Z")
No, you’re right. “Cat” here is most likely short for “cat 'o nine tails.” It certainly seems the simplest and most logical. ---
**Author:** ![Wytehawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Wytehawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wytehawk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/5 "2001-01-11T01:32:10Z")
Well there you go. You learn something new every day. Thanks for that! Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/6 "2001-01-12T11:16:25Z")
Check out [http://www.bartleby.net/81/3164.html](http://www.bartleby.net/81/3164.html) for an explanation ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/7 "2001-01-12T12:24:44Z")
I’m not disputing the origin of the term, but does anyone have an actual cite in print? **Colin’s** link doesn’t quite make it, unless I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/8 "2001-01-12T13:59:42Z")
Well, I suppose you will just have to take my word for it that this is a print source, of genuine paper, etc. 🙂 There are probably other and better ones, but this is what is available to me. “Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase & Fable” edition pub. Wordsworth Editions 1993, Ware, Hertfordshire, U.K. > [@](#): > > **Not room to swing a cat:** > > …There are various suggested origins of the phrase. Swinging cats by their tails was once a popular amusement. There were several variants of the diversion; see “hang me in a bottle” (above), and “to fight like Kilkenny cats” (below). _Cat_ was an abbreviation for _cat o’ nine tails_, and in view of the restricted space in the old sailing ships where the cat was often administered, it is most likely derived from swinging this particular kind of cat. **Cat** is also an old Scottish word for rogue, and if the derivation is from this, the “swing” is that of the condemned rogue hanging from the gallows. The “hang me in a bottle” bit is, (says Brewer) a game of putting a cat into a bag or a bottle and hanging it from a tree for bowmen to shoot at, and is referred to in _Much Ado about Nothing_. The Kilkenny cats reference (acc. Brewer) was similarly cruel - two soldiers (in 1789) tied two cats together by their tails and hung them over a rope in order to watch them fight. When an officer approached to stop this, one soldier cut the two tails and the cats ran away pretty damn fast. Being asked for an explanation, the soldiers told the officer that the cats had been fighting fiercely and had devoured each other all but their tails. Pretty gruesome, eh? I know “Brewer’s” is also available online, but I don’t have a link right now. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Spritle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Spritle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spritle)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/9 "2001-01-12T14:01:08Z")
on the other hand, I’ve often used the expression “You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting…” As in, “You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone who has a theory on where this phrase came from.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/10 "2001-01-12T14:15:08Z")
Just wanted to second **spritle’s** observation as to the “dead cat” phrase. As in, “My commuter train is so lousy with lawyers you couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting one.” I always have a mental image of Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer, who I seem to recall had an affinity for dead cats. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/11 "2001-01-12T16:34:53Z")
In the Adventures of Tom Sawyer, th boy’s cure for warts was to tie something to the tail of a dead cat, say some incantation, swing the cat around their head a certain number of times and by flinging the cat they flung the warts. ---
**Author:** ![Survey1215](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Survey1215](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Survey1215)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/12 "2001-01-12T16:36:10Z")
Mark Twain used the phrase in the early part of “The Innocents Abroad” in reference to the size of the rooms on the ship in which the innocents were traveling to Europe. (paraphrasing some here, its been awhile): “Our staterooms were of a size that one couldn’t swing a cat around by its tail, at least without doing serious damage to the cat.” Beyond that, I haven’t seen it in print, which could merely mean I need to read more. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/13 "2001-01-12T16:51:05Z")
It was well-known enough in the 1910s to be used in a Jerome Kern song: "When it’s nesting time in Flatbush we will take a little flat, With a ‘Welcome’ on the mat, Where there’s room to swing a cat . . . " ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/14 "2001-01-12T16:54:24Z")
Hmmm…cats do seem to figure in these expressions pretty often. My favorite, which is pretty common around my old home town, is “not enough room to cuss a cat without getting fur in your mouth”. Is this in use anywhere other than rural Louisiana? It’s self-explanatory, of course, but could it have been derived from/inspired by the phrase Wytehawk asked about? Of course, if you are cruel enough to pick a cat up by the tail, you’d _better_ swing him around. Otherwise, he’ll bow up and grind your hand into hamburger to free himself. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/15 "2001-01-12T16:58:27Z")
Damn, **balance** , I’m gonna be looking for opportunities to use that one! Continuing the feline fever, there’s always the chestnut, “Jumpy as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.” ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2001, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/16 "2001-01-13T07:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Celyn \* > \*\*The “hang me in a bottle” bit is, (says Brewer) a game of putting a cat into a bag or a bottle and hanging it from a tree for bowmen to shoot at, and is referred to in _Much Ado about Nothing_ \*\* The phrase in question is: “If I do, hang me in a bottle like a cat and shoot at me; and he that hits me, let him be clapped on the shoulder, and called Adam.” –Much Ado About Nothing, Act 1, Scene i “if I do” refers to falling in love and getting married, as Benedick (the speaker) shortly after says: “The savage bull may; but if ever the sensible Benedick bear it, pluck off the bull’s horns and set them in my forehead: and let me be vilely painted, and in such great letters as they write ‘Here is good horse to hire,’ let them signify under my sign ‘Here you may see Benedick the married man.’” No comments on Benedick’s attitude about marriage. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sorrel554](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@sorrel554](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sorrel554)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-expression-swing-a-cat-around-come-from/49428/17 "2001-01-13T16:39:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balance \* > \*\*“not enough room to cuss a cat without getting fur in your mouth”. Is this in use anywhere other than rural Louisiana? \*\* My grandmother, from rural South Carolina, constantly bemoans the size of her kitchen and says that there is neither “room to swing a cat” or “room to cuss a cat.” She doesn’t say the part about the fur, but the two expressions seem interchangeable.