# Where does the misconception that faith in Jesus is weakness come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610 "2004-11-02T21:04:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/1 "2004-11-02T21:04:04Z")
I suppose a Christian would answer “the devil” or “Satan”. But how would a non-Christian answer? The reason I hold that people think this is that every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity. Discarding the obvious reason for disbelief - that the power of miracles and the immense wisdom of Christ are not accepted as directly from God, the only apparent reason for not following his teaching according to its merit (regardless of the opinion of its origins), is that it is not expeditious, practical, or perhaps easy. Its is the reasons for this latter case of uninterest that I would like to discuss. In my own case I believed that the doctrine of forgiveness was weakness, but having read the bible (NT only) all my doubts were dispelled. Having tried to follow the teaching, I found that it is indeed not practical, nor easy, but it is expeditious. ---
**Author:** ![EsotericEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e274bd/32.png) [@EsotericEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EsotericEnigma)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/2 "2004-11-02T21:19:51Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > The reason I hold that people think this is that every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity. Definitely not true here in the US. There are more Christians than you can shake your fist at, and it’s more popular than any other spirituality by several magnitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/3 "2004-11-02T21:45:13Z")
> [@EsotericEnigma](#): > > Definitely not true here in the US. There are more Christians than you can shake your fist at, and it’s more popular than any other spirituality by several magnitudes. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/4 "2004-11-02T21:49:06Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > The reason I hold that people think this is that every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity. Yeah, that’s definitely wrong. In fact, it’s spectacularly wrong. Christianity is the number one religion in the world: > **[Payday Loans | Quick Cash Advances | Adherents.com](https://www.adherents.com/payday-loans/)** > > Your Quick Guide to Payday Loans and Their Rules Payday loans are something that many people have heard of, but \[…\] Christianity: 2 billion Islam: 1.3 billion Hinduism: 900 million Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million Buddhism: 360 million ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/5 "2004-11-02T21:50:46Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > the only apparent reason for not following his teaching according to its merit (regardless of the opinion of its origins), is that it is not…easy. Heh, I don’t want to sound _too_ snarky, because I wish you were right - and in a perfect world you would be - but what planet are you living on? ALL the drug dealers I know are christians. ALL of my most promiscuous friends and friends with children out of wedlock are christians. The three most dishonest (meaning they lie, cheat, and steal with reckless abandon) people I’ve ever met in my life are christians. Oh believe me, I’ve heard a lot of reasons for not following christ, but “it’s too hard” has never been one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Peligro\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@Peligro\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peligro_1)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/6 "2004-11-02T22:33:39Z")
Scarf-Ace, two questions: 1.) Who says that faith in Jesus is a weakness? 2.) If people are saying it, then what do you have to back up your assertion that it is a misconception? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/7 "2004-11-02T23:38:37Z")
Oh, I think that the terms “superstition,” and “believing in a Magical Sky Pixie” (and a jillion other disdainful comments along those lines) indicates that many people think that faith in Jesus is a “weakness.” I don’t know if I’d say it was the most difficult religion, though. It depends on how faithful you are in adhering to (your interpretation of) it, which denomination you belong to, and so forth. There are some other religions I can think of that are pretty damned hard—particularly on women. > [@Cisco](#): > > ALL the drug dealers I know are christians. ALL of my most promiscuous friends and friends with children out of wedlock are christians. The three most dishonest (meaning they lie, cheat, and steal with reckless abandon) people I’ve ever met in my life are christians. _Saying_ that you are something (or that you do something) and actually _doing_ something about it are two different things. I can claim to be very intellectual and smart, but it’s all just talk, talk, talk until I _prove_ I am actually smart. Same with religion. Same with just about anything. I’m sure that many of these drug dealers and dishonest people think that they are pretty good, pretty smart people too. Talk is cheap. Backing your words up with action is something completely different. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/8 "2004-11-03T00:01:31Z")
Nietzche probably had something to do with it, what with how he kept calling religious people weak. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/9 "2004-11-03T00:26:00Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > _Saying_ that you are something (or that you do something) and actually _doing_ something about it are two different things. I can claim to be very intellectual and smart, but it’s all just talk, talk, talk until I _prove_ I am actually smart. Same with religion. Same with just about anything. > > I’m sure that many of these drug dealers and dishonest people think that they are pretty good, pretty smart people too. Talk is cheap. Backing your words up with action is something completely different. I’ve never met a christian then. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/10 "2004-11-03T00:36:39Z")
Scarf-Ace, was the particular weakness you were referring to the doctrine of forgiveness vs revenge? Because that hasn’t been addressed, yet. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/11 "2004-11-03T00:41:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’ve never met a christian then. No, you just met a lot of people who claim to be something because, well, they _claim_ it. But, if you were to say that in order to be called a Christian, you had to—let’s try something extremely basic—prove that you’re at least _trying_ to not blatantly break any of the Ten Commandments, then all these people you cite aren’t up to snuff. Not even _remotely_. But since we don’t do that, and since anyone can call themselves Christian by just _saying_ it, then being Christian isn’t hard at all. You just have to mouth the words. Doesn’t mean much, does it? You can also claim that you’re smart by just saying it. You can also claim that you are beautiful by just saying it. Whether or not other people will agree with you, or consider you _really_ smart or _really_ beautiful is up for debate. But you can always claim it. There are tons of “really good” out there, and there are tons of “really smart” people out there. They _claim_ they are, so it must be so, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/12 "2004-11-03T00:45:15Z")
**yosemite** : _Oh, I think that the terms “superstition,” and “believing in a Magical Sky Pixie” (and a jillion other disdainful comments along those lines) indicates that many people think that faith in Jesus is a “weakness.”_ But the people who use those terms generally apply them to **all** forms of theism, not just Christianity. That would not explain the OP’s claim that “every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity”. I think **ultrafilter** is closer to the answer with the idea that existentialists like Nietzsche, with his critique of Christian doctrine and compassion for the weak and unfortunate in general as “slave morality”, gave rise to a “Christianity-is-for-pussies” attitude. These days, I think the idea that Christianity implies “weakness” is more of an issue among Christians themselves than among non-Christians. Consider not only the OP but pronouncements from conservative Christians like the [Rev. Doug Giles](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/dg20040417.shtml): > [@](#): > > Have you ever asked yourself, “Self … why do churches today look more like the lingerie department at Wal-Mart, than a battalion of men poised to plunder the powers of darkness?” Why do men avoid going to church, and what can be done about it? […] > > So why do most men avoid church? Here’s the veneer stripped-away answer: going to church for the majority of men is an exercise in unwanted effeminacy. Church, for most men, has not only become irrelevant; it has also become effeminate. Hanging out in church for most extra-Y chromosomes seems unmanly and most men more than anything want to be masculine! […] > > Here are a few things the Church can do.… > > ·Put an end to preaching by cheesy, whiny, quiche eating, preening Nancy Boys … right now! It freaks us meat eaters out. Get it? Hire a pastor who throws off a good John Wayne vibe instead of that Boy George feeling. Know what I mean? […] > > ·Ditto regarding the worship/music leader. And make sure your new testosterone laden _songmeister_ is outfitted with weighty worship music instead of the saccharine-laced slush we have had to sing ad nauseam et infinitum for the last, oh, 100 years. […] > > ·Lose the Church’s “I’m in therapy for ever” feel. Yes, yes, we’re all a work in progress but the co-dependant, extended womb the Church has wrongfully created has allowed congregants to not get a life because of some difficult doo-doo in their lives. Sure life’s hard, little Sally, and the sooner, we celebrate the struggle the quicker we will draw men back to our houses of worship. > > If the Church wants to recover its losses, we’ve got to draw the knuckle draggers back to church. Masculine men are pretty easy. Toss in reason, competition, initiation, struggle, fun and a problem to spiritually throttle, and we’ll be there like stink on a monkey. So if you’re wondering where the accusations of “Christianity=weakness” are coming from, look for the friendly fire. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/13 "2004-11-03T07:09:45Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > I’m sure that many of these drug dealers and dishonest people think that they are pretty good, pretty smart people too. Talk is cheap. Backing your words up with action is something completely different. I dunno about this. It’s disingenuous to assume that _action_ is the important factor to every single Church. Some denominations believe that action is irrelevant and it is only faith that matters - there are theologians who could accept that someone who was a drug dealer, but who also believed that Jesus was the son of God, born of a sinless woman, was persecuted, died for the sins of mankind, descended into Hell and was resurrected, was 100% Christian. Jack Chick is an extreme example of this, but that theology does not belong to him alone. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/14 "2004-11-03T08:19:27Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Oh, I think that the terms “superstition,” and “believing in a Magical Sky Pixie” (and a jillion other disdainful comments along those lines) indicates that many people think that faith in Jesus is a “weakness.” 1. I think you’re taking the “Sky Pixie” thing out of context. I’ve heard that come up in debates here more as a rhetorical point than as an insult. To most Christians, God is an unquestionable reality; so I think many times, when someone says “sky pixie” or “sky magician” or whatever, they’re doing so to try to get you to put the shoe on the other foot, and understand the point of view of someone who _doesn’t_ unquestionably accept that God is real. If you look at it in a cold, objective way, that’s really what God is - a magician who lives in the sky. I’m sure _some_ people are saying that in order to denigrate, but I don’t think most are. 2. Of the people who don’t believe in God, not all are of the opinion that God-belief is necessarily a weakness. I think people who believe in God are _wrong_, but not necessarily _weak_. 3. “Many” is not “most”. The OP seemed to be implying that Christians are a minority under attack by a larger group. That’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/15 "2004-11-03T14:09:51Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > No, you just met a lot of people who claim to be something because, well, they _claim_ it. Would you like a little sugar for your porridge? ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/16 "2004-11-03T16:54:38Z")
1- The inability to accept the ultimate in personal responsibility: There is no grand puppeteer in the sky making things go for you or against you. > [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > The reason I hold that people think this is that every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity. 2- The ingrained, self (church, not individual)-supporting persecution complex (really just a corollary of 1). ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/17 "2004-11-03T17:47:11Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > 1.If you look at it in a cold, objective way, that’s really what God is - a magician who lives in the sky. Judeo-Christian God, maybe. _My_ God/dess is everywhere, in everything, not just the sky. ---
**Author:** ![JMS\_CCT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@JMS\_CCT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JMS_CCT)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/18 "2004-11-04T17:36:40Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > I suppose a Christian would answer “the devil” or “Satan”. > > But how would a non-Christian answer? > > The reason I hold that people think this is that every other kind of spirituality seems to be more popular than Christianity. Discarding the obvious reason for disbelief - that the power of miracles and the immense wisdom of Christ are not accepted as directly from God, the only apparent reason for not following his teaching according to its merit (regardless of the opinion of its origins), is that it is not expeditious, practical, or perhaps easy. Its is the reasons for this latter case of uninterest that I would like to discuss. > > In my own case I believed that the doctrine of forgiveness was weakness, but having read the bible (NT only) all my doubts were dispelled. Having tried to follow the teaching, I found that it is indeed not practical, nor easy, but it is expeditious. What exactly do you mean by “following his teaching?” Are you referring to the instructions he gave his twelve disciples in what he called the “gospel of the kingdom?” (Matt. 4:23) ---
**Author:** ![cichlidiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f9b8f/32.png) [@cichlidiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cichlidiot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/19 "2004-11-04T19:55:16Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Oh, I think that the terms “superstition,” and “believing in a Magical Sky Pixie” (and a jillion other disdainful comments along those lines) indicates that many people think that faith in Jesus is a “weakness.” I think it’s more complex than that (poking fun/being snarky) for some people. I’d probably think any person who fails to exercise critical thinking is showing weakness, by taking a weak stance. That is not to say I think all christians do this, I’m referring to people who fall back on “God did it.” I respect a person’s position more when I hear “I don’t know,” and the same applies to other faiths and atheists. To clarify a bit. I not only prefer someone admitting they don’t have all of the answers, I like to hear they have examined their beliefs further than - a)This is what my parents believed and so I believe, too. b)This is what the Bible says and so it must be true. etc. I don’t believe the above gives me a license to mock, but I would probably view a person coming from those positions as having a weak stance. OTOH, I’ve known christians who seem to have examined the available evidence and just reached a different conclusion than I have. Since I don’t have all the answers either, I can’t say their position is necessarily any weaker than mine. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610/20 "2004-11-04T20:59:44Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Judeo-Christian God, maybe. _My_ God/dess is everywhere, in everything, not just the sky. Yeah, well we _are_ talking about the J-C God in this thread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-misconception-that-faith-in-jesus-is-weakness-come-from/272610.md?page=2)