# Where does the Scottish Everendum stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026 "2014-12-01T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/741 "2015-01-06T14:13:45Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > If you are truly a unionist that’s how you will see it, UK money, instead of grudgingly giving Northern Ireland more money than they earned. > How dare they expect to be in a union and get helped by other members of the union. That was English money and they should be grateful for it. > After all the English are much loved and brought nothing but good things to Northern Ireland. > > You’ll note I’m using Northern Ireland because your problem is with the barnett formula so this is really the wrong topic to be debating it as it’s not just a Scottish issue and this thread is about Scotland. I am not a Unionist. Or rather I was at one time, but I am no longer. I want independence for England. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/742 "2015-01-06T14:27:41Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > Not allowing parties in parliament that have been democratically elected is not a great idea. I suspect Steophan meant ‘government’ as in, he doesn’t think the SNP deserve to have a stake in the Westminster government, but I doubt he objects to their having MPs in the Commons. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/743 "2015-01-06T14:31:49Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I suspect Steophan meant ‘government’ as in, he doesn’t think the SNP deserve to have a stake in the Westminster government, but I doubt he objects to their having MPs in the Commons. What I specifically meant is that I think it’s wrong for people to vote nationalists into parliament, not that they shouldn’t take their seats when elected. Same reason it’s wrong to, for example, vote for UKIP MEPs. I also do think that no party should attempt to form a coalition with nationalists of any stripe, but that’s a slightly different issue. And yes, that does mean that I think any part of a country (in this case, the UK) should only become independent with the consent of a majority of the country, not just of the region that wants independence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/744 "2015-01-06T14:34:00Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I am not a Unionist. Or rather I was at one time, but I am no longer. I want independence for England. I have to admit that, whilst I don’t support this, the idea of England declaring independence and leaving Scotland floundering is kinda funny. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/745 "2015-01-06T14:39:18Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > It could also simply be a matter of the Commons being unwilling to support any combination of government at all, and after a certain period of time, there would be a Dissolution by default, regardless of that 2/3 requirement. Until there is a formal vote of no confidence , Parliament cannot be dissolved. The government would have to engineer a loss to make this happen. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/746 "2015-01-06T14:44:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I know, I just don’t see the relevance of those differences to why it’s right for Scotland to get so much more than it’s share of money and representation. > > I also know the differences are pretty tiny, Which exhibits your ignorance. How is the Scottish NHS managed How much does a prescription coat What hours can you shop What hours can you buy alcohol How much does a plastic bag coat What sort of schools are there When do you start school When do you finish school ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/747 "2015-01-06T14:46:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > How much does a plastic bag coat The differences truly are as numerous as they are profound. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/748 "2015-01-06T14:46:46Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Until there is a formal vote of no confidence , Parliament cannot be dissolved. The government would have to engineer a loss to make this happen. Unless the coalition collapsed and one or more of the involved parties walks away from it. Which is what I’m saying is probable, if it’s a rainbow coalition. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/749 "2015-01-06T14:47:50Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Which exhibits your ignorance. > > How is the Scottish NHS managed > How much does a prescription coat > What hours can you shop > What hours can you buy alcohol > How much does a plastic bag coat > What sort of schools are there > When do you start school > When do you finish school It has to be said, hardly rallying cries for independence, Pjen. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/750 "2015-01-06T14:53:43Z")
What is the coat of University tuition What student grants are available How are local councils chosen Who hears minor criminal cases How many on a jury What about bedroom tax What rights do you have when questioned by the police What is the drink driving limit What about residential care for the elderly What about mental disorder and competence laws What about water rates How do you buy a house What about your rights on will making Can you stand at football grounds What about whole life sentences What are the bank holidays What about rights to walk on private land What about rough camping Can you be clamped and fined for parking on private land All identical in England and Scotland? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/751 "2015-01-06T14:55:14Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Unless the coalition collapsed and one or more of the involved parties walks away from it. Which is what I’m saying is probable, if it’s a rainbow coalition. If the coalition collapsed, the Prime Minister could still run a minority government until supply or confidence was lost. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/752 "2015-01-06T14:56:16Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > It has to be said, hardly rallying cries for independence, Pjen. Agreed. But Stephan was saying how similar the two countries are, which is increasingly bs. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/753 "2015-01-06T14:58:47Z")
Virtually every aspect of everyday life is different. That is what people could do with understanding- mire than a region for the above reasons, and that is discounting history and sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/754 "2015-01-06T14:59:49Z")
And now votes at 16 ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/755 "2015-01-06T15:01:36Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > If the coalition collapsed, the Prime Minister could still run a minority government until supply or confidence was lost. But immediately he would be vulnerable to a loss of confidence. It’s a lot more fluid than you consider. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/756 "2015-01-06T15:11:45Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Virtually every aspect of everyday life is different. That is what people could do with understanding- mire than a region for the above reasons, and that is discounting history and sentiment. Virtually every aspect of life is slightly different, yes. But you’ll not find a country outside of the UK and Ireland that’s more similar to Scotland than any of those within it. Not to mention that the majority of the things you list vary in the English regions, as well as the other countries in the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/757 "2015-01-06T15:14:41Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > But immediately he would be vulnerable to a loss of confidence. It’s a lot more fluid than you consider. Yeah, it’s hard to see Parliament having confidence in a minority government in the current political climate. Too many parties would be hoping to gain seats at an election at the expense of the party proven to be incapable of governing, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/758 "2015-01-06T15:54:06Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Virtually every aspect of everyday life is different. I’m sorry but this is simply not the case. There are a number of minor differences, but they’re not really all that great. The property system is different, the Scottish State chooses to fund certain things that the English State does not (and is racist about it to boot), the legal system has a few changes of title and the Not Proven verdict, but it’s really not much different to England. And you largely list relative trivialities. Scotland and England are vastly more alike than they are different. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/759 "2015-01-06T16:11:06Z")
Indeed. Though we’ve been over this point before with Pjen in another thread. Apparently she knew somebody once from Scotland who took “months” to adjust to life in England. Sounds like complete bullshit. It’s only a matter of time before she points out the National Trust in Scotland is different to the National Trust in England and Wales, and how St. John’s Ambulance is named St. Andrew’s Ambulance in Scotland as further evidence, however. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/760 "2015-01-06T16:38:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > What is the coat of University tuition > What student grants are available > How are local councils chosen > Who hears minor criminal cases > How many on a jury > What about bedroom tax > What rights do you have when questioned by the police > What is the drink driving limit > What about residential care for the elderly > What about mental disorder and competence laws > What about water rates > How do you buy a house > What about your rights on will making > Can you stand at football grounds > What about whole life sentences > What are the bank holidays > What about rights to walk on private land > What about rough camping > Can you be clamped and fined for parking on private land > All identical in England and Scotland? Welcome to life in the United States. Somehow we manage to muddle through with such minor differences between the states without too many idiot politicians crying for secession. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=39)