# Where does the Scottish Everendum stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026 "2014-12-01T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/881 "2015-01-08T10:11:44Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Sorry, I’m lost. What’s the actual issue here? That certain parts of England refuse Scottish notes? Apparently some Polish money exchangers refuse Scottish bank notes. Sometimes. Or maybe not, but they may offer differing rates for Scottish notes compared to Bank of England notes. Sometimes. Or maybe sometimes they just offer the same rate and there’s no issue, in which case nobody makes a mental note of this non-event. Another rallying cry for Scottish independence, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/882 "2015-01-08T10:12:26Z")
Anyone living in Scotland will have talks of refusal to accept Scottish notes. It is quite legal for them to be refused which is why most of us note which machines issue English notes in our area if we are grovelling. I always withdraw £100 English each time I head further south than Carlisle. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/883 "2015-01-08T10:14:24Z")
No, you withdraw £100 British. The notes are issued by the central bank of the United Kingdom and are legal currency anywhere within the United Kingdom. That a few private businesses in Scotland chose to hold on to the right to issue promissory notes of their own design doesn’t change what Bank of England notes are, nor does it make those notes, issued by private businesses, the currency of Scotland, which is apparently what you believed until it was pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/884 "2015-01-08T10:14:37Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Apparently some Polish money exchangers refuse Scottish bank notes. Sometimes. Or maybe not, but they may offer differing rates for Scottish notes compared to Bank of England notes. Sometimes. Or maybe sometimes they just offer the same rate and there’s no issue, in which case nobody makes a mental note of this non-event. > > Another rallying cry for Scottish independence, naturally. Later cam across a similar cite for Gibraltar. But I was just asked for a cite for surcharge and I provided one which is sufficient. It does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/885 "2015-01-08T10:17:00Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > No, you withdraw £100 British. The notes are issued by the central bank of the United Kingdom. Strange that they say Bank of England then. Bank of England, RBS BOS and Clydesdale are all sterling , but BofE notes are English and the others are Scottish. Same for the Irish banks, they are NI notes. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/886 "2015-01-08T10:20:07Z")
Yes, they say Bank of England because the name of the central bank of the United Kingdom is called the Bank of England. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/887 "2015-01-08T10:20:35Z")
It is worth pointing out that Bank of England notes are not legal tender in Scotland but they are in England. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/888 "2015-01-08T10:21:39Z")
No shit. Scots law doesn’t have a concept of legal tender. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/889 "2015-01-08T10:23:14Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Yes, they say Bank of England because the name of the central bank of the United Kingdom is called the Bank of England. :smack: So they are English notes, printed in England and based in London. Scottish notes are issued in Scotland, and NI notes are issued in Belfast. Bank of England notes are only legal tender in England and Wales. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/890 "2015-01-08T10:25:10Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > No shit. Scots law doesn’t have a concept of legal tender. I am afraid you are wrong. There is legal tender in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/891 "2015-01-08T10:32:54Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I am afraid you are wrong. There is legal tender in Scotland. The Committee of Scottish Bankers would [disagree with you there](http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php): > [@Committee of Scottish Bankers](#): > > In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term ‘legal tender’ north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection. It’s also worth pointing out that “legal tender” is a narrow, technical legal term that has little bearing on whether a particular note can be used as currency: > [@Bank of England](#): > > “The term legal tender does not in itself govern the acceptability of banknotes in transactions. Whether or not notes have legal tender status, their acceptability as a means of payment is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved. Legal tender has a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt. If a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he owes under the terms of a contract, he has good defence in law if he is subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In ordinary everyday transactions, the term ‘legal tender’ has very little practical application.” As far as I know, no creditor has ever sued for non-payment of a debt after being paid in Scottish, or Northern Irish, or Manx pounds. I can’t imagine anyone who tried would succeed at anything but being laughed out of court. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/892 "2015-01-08T10:35:53Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is worth pointing out that Bank of England notes are not legal tender in Scotland but they are in England. You are being disingenuous again. _No_ notes are legal tender in Scotland. Also, Bank of England notes aren’t only legal tender in England, but in another country in the Union as well. So your argument that they are English notes because they are only valid in England is false. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/893 "2015-01-08T10:36:49Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The Committee of Scottish Bankers would [disagree with you there](http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php): > > It’s also worth pointing out that “legal tender” is a narrow, technical legal term that has little bearing on whether a particular note can be used as currency: > > As far as I know, creditor has ever sued for non-payment of a debt after being paid in Scottish, or Northern Irish, or Manx pounds. I can’t imagine anyone who tried would succeed at anything but being laughed out of court. Read your cite carefully. Think carefully about your error. “In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term ‘legal tender’ north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection.” ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/894 "2015-01-08T10:38:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You are being disingenuous again. _No_ notes are legal tender in Scotland. Also, Bank of England notes aren’t only legal tender in England, but in another country in the Union as well. So your argument that they are English notes because they are only valid in England is false. Notes issued in England are generally referred to as English notes, and Scottish and NI notes are known by their national names. Simple. Over ninety per cent of notes in Scotland and NI are their own notes. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/895 "2015-01-08T10:40:04Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The Committee of Scottish Bankers would [disagree with you there](http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php): **pjen** is actually technically correct, although as usual is obfuscating the issue. Sterling _coins_ are legal tender in the whole of the UK. Bank of England notes are legal tender in the majority of the UK, excepting Scotland and Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/896 "2015-01-08T10:43:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Notes issued in England are generally referred to as English notes, and Scottish and NI notes are known by their national names. Simple. Over ninety per cent of notes in Scotland and NI are their own notes. They are generally, and correctly, referred to as British notes, on the rare occasion that their origin need be referred to. That a couple of small regions refer to them otherwise doesn’t change that generality. One would hope that 100% of notes circulating in any part of Britain are their own… Or have you forgotten, Scotland is part of Britain, and BoE notes are just as much theirs as they are, for example, Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/897 "2015-01-08T10:43:59Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The Committee of Scottish Bankers would [disagree with you there](http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php): > > It’s also worth pointing out that “legal tender” is a narrow, technical legal term that has little bearing on whether a particular note can be used as currency: > > As far as I know, no creditor has ever sued for non-payment of a debt after being paid in Scottish, or Northern Irish, or Manx pounds. I can’t imagine anyone who tried would succeed at anything but being laughed out of court. You misunderstand the concept of legal tender. Legal tender merely applies to that money that MUST be accepted by a seller to complete a contract, not what must be OFFERED by the buyer. A buyer may offer to settle the debt in any way, notes, coin, chequers, direct debit, pigs or shells, but that is part of a contract. Any contract is NECESSARILY met when paid in legal tender, but the debt may be settled by agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/898 "2015-01-08T10:45:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > **pjen** is actually technically correct, although as usual is obfuscating the issue. Sterling _coins_ are legal tender in the whole of the UK. Bank of England notes are legal tender in the majority of the UK, excepting Scotland and Northern Ireland. Still not correct. Only certain coins or combinations of coins are legal tender in different parts of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/899 "2015-01-08T10:46:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Read your cite carefully. Think carefully about your error. > > “In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term ‘legal tender’ north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection.” How about you quote me the Scots Law governing legal tender? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/900 "2015-01-08T10:48:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > They are generally, and correctly, referred to as British notes, on the rare occasion that their origin need be referred to. That a couple of small regions refer to them otherwise doesn’t change that generality. > > One would hope that 100% of notes circulating in any part of Britain are their own… Or have you forgotten, Scotland is part of Britain, and BoE notes are just as much theirs as they are, for example, Welsh. One of the things that differentiates English pounds is that they are legal tender in England and Wales, but not in Scotland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=46)