# Where does the Scottish Everendum stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026 "2014-12-01T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/921 "2015-01-08T13:36:59Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The terms used are > > Bank of England notes > > Banknotes in Scotland > > Banknotes in Northern Ireland > > The latter two are issued by banks in those locations. > > [http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/scottish\_northernireland.aspx](http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/scottish_northernireland.aspx) > Seven banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland are authorised to issue banknotes. Legislation is in place to ensure that holders of banknotes issued by the authorised banks receive a level of protection similar to that provided to holders of Bank of England notes. In particular, the banks must hold backing assets equivalent to all of their banknotes in circulation, to ensure that if one of the authorised banks were to fail there would be sufficient funds to pay out all noteholders. The Bank of England monitors the seven banks’ compliance with this legislative regime. > > The seven authorised banks (or their predecessors) have been regulated with regard to the backing of their banknotes since 1845. Part 6 of the Banking Act 2009 (the Act), which came into effect on 23 November 2009, updated and modernised the framework for commercial note issuance to provide enhanced noteholder protection. > > Three banks are authorised to issue banknotes in Scotland: > •Bank of Scotland plc; > •Clydesdale Bank plc; and > •The Royal Bank of Scotland plc. > > Four banks are authorised to issue banknotes in Northern Ireland: > •Bank of Ireland (UK) plc [1]; > •AIB Group (UK) plc (trades as First Trust Bank in Northern Ireland); > •Northern Bank Limited (trades as Danske Bank); and > •Ulster Bank Limited. > The provisions in the legislation are designed to ensure that holders of banknotes issued by the authorised banks receive a level of protection similar to that provided to holders of Bank of England notes. The Act passed the responsibility for regulating commercial banknote issuance on to the Bank of England. The Bank’s role is limited to matters relating to ensuring that the banks hold sufficient backing assets: it is not responsible for the design of the authorised banks’ banknotes or their robustness against counterfeiting. If you read the cites you will see the use of “Scottish” but not “English”. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/922 "2015-01-08T13:38:33Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > So is your complaint, Pjen, that Scottish notes are so obscure that people elsewhere don’t realise they’re acceptable as money within the UK? Apart from apparently near motorways, with “near” being an unspecified distance which I am assuming to be “a bit further away from whatever anyone else thinks is near”. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/923 "2015-01-08T14:05:12Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > If you read the cites you will see the use of “Scottish” but not “English”. But Bank of England notes are legal tender in England and Wales alone. Which makes them English Legal tender. Which gives them a English identity. They also represent the Pound Sterling which is a different concept to an English bank note. All Scottish, NI and English issued notes are representative of Sterling but are not sterling as such. Bank of England notes are certainly referred to as English money in Scotland Nd NI. I often ask for ‘English money’ from Tesco when sending birthday or Christmas money. Extreme nationalists will refuse change in English notes and most often the English notes are banked along with damaged notes and undamaged Scottish notes retained in the till. This refusal was most prominent a couple of years ago when Scottish banks cut back on the production of fivers and generally only English fivers were available; you would often be asked if you minded receiving English notes or would rather have coin. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/924 "2015-01-08T14:08:29Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Apart from apparently near motorways, with “near” being an unspecified distance which I am assuming to be “a bit further away from whatever anyone else thinks is near”. Which is the case as those areas that see Scottish money more regularly (close to main highways and in cities) are more likely to recognise and accept them. This is even more of a problem for high value notes- I would hesitate to try to spend a fifty outside Scotland or banks. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/925 "2015-01-08T14:11:12Z")
What experience do you have of trying to spend Scottish notes out with cites and highways in England. Nil I suspect. To people who use Scottish money every day it is a recognised problem when visiting England. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/926 "2015-01-08T14:41:11Z")
No, **Pjen** , it’s a meme amongst Scots that won’t die, in the same way a large number of Britons are convinced the EU outlawed bendy bananas. One or two refusals on the part of small English shopkeepers is enough to keep the idea alive and reinforce the storytelling for another generation, whilst hundreds of thousands of uneventful transactions where Scottish notes were exchanged without issue are ignored. As I said earlier I’ve been travelling back and forth regularly between Scotland and England for 12 years and never once had a problem. You’re not the only English person to have ever lived North of the border. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/927 "2015-01-08T14:45:36Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > No, **Pjen** , it’s a meme amongst Scots that won’t die, in the same way a large number of Britons are convinced the EU outlawed bendy bananas. One or two refusals on the part of small English shopkeepers is enough to keep the idea alive and reinforce the storytelling for another generation, whilst hundreds of thousands of uneventful transactions where Scottish notes were exchanged without issue are ignored. > > As I said earlier I’ve been travelling back and forth regularly between Scotland and England for 12 years and never once had a problem. You’re not the only English person to have ever lived North of the border. Other’s experience may vary. Mine does and according to Google I am not alone. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/928 "2015-01-08T14:47:58Z")
Yes, you rather inconveniently linked to a Reddit thread a few hours ago that had, as its top-rated comment, a poster saying he had never had a problem getting rid of Scottish promissory notes in England. We all remember. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/929 "2015-01-08T14:53:07Z")
Why is it that English shopkeepers often refuse to accept Scottish banknotes? [http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19878,00.html](http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19878,00.html) This site has a conversation about people’s difficulties with Scottish notes and also gives a further example of surcharges at exchanges [http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19878,00.html](http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19878,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/930 "2015-01-08T14:55:34Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Yes, you rather inconveniently linked to a Reddit thread a few hours ago that had, as its top-rated comment, a poster saying he had never had a problem getting rid of Scottish promissory notes in England. We all remember. One counter example does not prove a generality. Most people in Scotland are aware of difficulties using Scottish money abroad and in England. Contrariwise recently it was difficult to spend old English £20 notes before the new one was introduced. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/931 "2015-01-08T15:00:24Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Which is the case as those areas that see Scottish money more regularly (close to main highways and in cities) are more likely to recognise and accept them. This is even more of a problem for high value notes- I would hesitate to try to spend a fifty outside Scotland or banks. Quite what being 10 miles from the M40, a motorway that ends south of Birmingham, has to do with anything I really don’t know. Do you really think people are taking a detour to the small towns to use their money from up North? As someone that has worked retail in Warwickshire (for my sins I used to work in McDonald’s as a student) I can happily tell you that they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/932 "2015-01-08T15:02:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > What experience do you have of trying to spend Scottish notes out with cites and highways in England. Nil I suspect. To people who use Scottish money every day it is a recognised problem when visiting England. As I mentioned upthread I used to get a lot of Scottish money when I was younger, what with having a Mother from Renfrew that is the eldest of eight. You are aware of the concept of relatives popping a fiver or a tenner in a card for birthdays and Christmases, right? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/933 "2015-01-08T15:33:46Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Quite what being 10 miles from the M40, a motorway that ends south of Birmingham, has to do with anything I really don’t know. Do you really think people are taking a detour to the small towns to use their money from up North? As someone that has worked retail in Warwickshire (for my sins I used to work in McDonald’s as a student) I can happily tell you that they don’t. Interesting anecdote. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/934 "2015-01-08T15:35:11Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > As I mentioned upthread I used to get a lot of Scottish money when I was younger, what with having a Mother from Renfrew that is the eldest of eight. You are aware of the concept of relatives popping a fiver or a tenner in a card for birthdays and Christmases, right? Interesting anecdote. Unfortunately not in accord with the generalosotion which can be easily googled. Two solid references above. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/935 "2015-01-08T15:37:58Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Interesting anecdote. Unfortunately not in accord with the generalosotion which can be easily googled. Two solid references above. So his stories are anecdotes, and the stories you refer to are solid references. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/936 "2015-01-08T15:38:18Z")
Slam dunk Survey of Which Magazine customers More than half of Which? members who have tried to spend Scottish or Northern Irish banknotes in England or Wales have experienced difficulties, Which? research reveals. Of the 1,069 people we surveyed, 650 have attempted to spend Scottish or Northern Irish banknotes in England or Wales – 32% were given the impression by shop staff that they were unhappy to accept the notes; 26% were refused service altogether. Those actually living in Scotland or Northern Ireland were significantly more likely to report difficulties when venturing south of the border or across the Irish Sea, with 37% encountering shop staff unhappiness and 35% saying they had been refused service. [www.which.co.uk/news/2014/10/scottish-banknotes-cause-consumers-difficulties-383894/](http://www.which.co.uk/news/2014/10/scottish-banknotes-cause-consumers-difficulties-383894/) Can we now accept that there is a difficulty with spending Scottish notes in England? I can’t see much wriggle room left for naysayers. Maybe Which is a secret Nationalist paper? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/937 "2015-01-08T15:42:33Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Interesting anecdote. Unfortunately not in accord with the generalosotion which can be easily googled. Two solid references above. It’s the same reference twice (the N&Q column). Which is a) Anecdotal, which apparently is a bad thing now; b) About 10 years old? The column hasn’t run for ages, and the webpage format is from at least two rebrands ago; c) Mainly based on people recounting experiences which happened to them a long time ago. As an evidence base for “what it is like to spend Scottish notes in England” it lacks a little something. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/938 "2015-01-08T15:43:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > So his stories are anecdotes, and the stories you refer to are solid references. Typical. I have referenced two discussions on independent sites discussing such problems. You will note that I have now published a Which survey that supports my take on the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/939 "2015-01-08T15:51:45Z")
… The Which survey is more interesting, although the number of people who have actually been refused service is only 15%. And this only had to have happened once in their entire lives for it to register. It doesn’t tell us how many times it’s happened, or how many times they’ve successfully spent Scottish notes. If refusal happens \>5% of all attempted transactions, it’s a problem. If it happens once or twice among thousands of transactions, it’s an occasional niggle. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/940 "2015-01-08T15:52:03Z")
Further cites > **[Scottish bank notes in Belfast - Belfast Message Board - Tripadvisor](https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g186470-i491-k5865871-Scottish_bank_notes_in_Belfast-Belfast_Northern_Ireland.html)** > > Answer 1 of 29: Tripadvisor staff removed this post at the original author's request.What are forum guidelines? [http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/spending-scottish-money-in-englandwales](http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/spending-scottish-money-in-englandwales) > **[Scottish Banknotes - Rick Steves Travel Forum](https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/scotland/scottish-banknotes)** > > We withdrew more money than we needed from an ATM in Scotland are now in England and Wales for the rest of our trip. The grocery store clerk here in a small town looked askance at the £20 Bank of Clyde note I tendered for payment, and had to get it... > **[Scottish bank notes questioned](https://showmastersonline.com/forums/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F85635-scottish-bank-notes-questioned%2F)** > > First let me say great show showmasters 👍👍 Ok I have a bit of a gripe. I attend most shows down south and On most occasions when I hand over my Scottish notes I am questioned about this. The staff who take my cash look at it as if it's foreign cash... For an avowedly absent problem, it’s getting a lot of Google hits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=48)