# Where does the Scottish Everendum stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026 "2014-12-01T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/941 "2015-01-08T15:54:40Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > … > > The Which survey is more interesting, although the number of people who have actually been refused service is only 15%. And this only had to have happened once in their entire lives for it to register. It doesn’t tell us how many times it’s happened, or how many times they’ve successfully spent Scottish notes. If refusal happens \>5% of all attempted transactions, it’s a problem. If it happens once or twice among thousands of transactions, it’s an occasional niggle. I have never claimed it is a universal problem, but in some areas and businesses it is a major problem. It is up to people claiming it is a myth to explain the Which survey and the multiple sites where such problems are widely discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/942 "2015-01-08T15:56:53Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > … > > The Which survey is more interesting, although the number of people who have actually been refused service is only 15%. And this only had to have happened once in their entire lives for it to register. It doesn’t tell us how many times it’s happened, or how many times they’ve successfully spent Scottish notes. If refusal happens \>5% of all attempted transactions, it’s a problem. If it happens once or twice among thousands of transactions, it’s an occasional niggle. I repeat the header More than half of Which? members who have tried to spend Scottish or Northern Irish banknotes in England or Wales have experienced difficulties, Which? research reveals. Of the 1,069 people we surveyed, 650 have attempted to spend Scottish or Northern Irish banknotes in England or Wales – 32% were given the impression by shop staff that they were unhappy to accept the notes; 26% were refused service altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/943 "2015-01-08T16:04:45Z")
Knowing where you can get English notes can be important in Scotland. We have two in my area. This is not anecdotal- see this long discussion > **[English notes in Midlothian.](https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F129776-english-notes-in-midlothian%2F)** > > Where can I get English bank notes for holidays? In midlothian area but will travel to town if need be. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/944 "2015-01-08T16:10:37Z")
And _New Mexico Magazine_ has a long-running feature called “One of Our Fifty is Missing”, where readers send in stories of having trouble with others not realizing that New Mexico is a state and not part of Mexico. But those stories are generally seen as funny anecdotes and not proof that New Mexicans are unfairly oppressed by Washington. Again, the solution is simple: Stop issuing pointless currency variations. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/945 "2015-01-08T16:14:25Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > And _New Mexico Magazine_ has a long-running feature called “One of Our Fifty is Missing”, where readers send in stories of having trouble with others not realizing that New Mexico is a state and not part of Mexico. But those stories are generally seen as funny anecdotes and not proof that New Mexicans are unfairly oppressed by Washington. Again, the solution is simple: Stop issuing pointless currency variations. It can cause difficulty trying to change a two dollar bill in the States for the same reason- ignorance and rarity. And speaking as a country that has the most ragged and low valued notes in the western world, maybe you will excuse us if we don’t take advice from you. Never mind being the only country that fails to vary the size of its notes to help the blinds and which has notes which have minimal colour variation. Glass house argument. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/946 "2015-01-08T16:25:39Z")
I assume **Pjen** refers with disdain to all UK coin as “welsh coins”, issued as it is by the UK Royal Mint in Wales, as she does to UK notes as “english notes”, issued as they are by the UK central bank the Bank Of England in England. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/947 "2015-01-08T16:42:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I assume **Pjen** refers with disdain to all UK coin as “welsh coins”, issued as it is by the UK Royal Mint in Wales, as she does to UK notes as “english notes”, issued as they are by the UK central bank the Bank Of England in England. What a stupid argument. If that is all you have, I suggest you give up. This is your usual technique- you lose an argument then try to prove you were right about something else that was not at issue. You did this for each of the elephant traps that I set you. May I remind you that your original argument was that my statement “It is easy to exchange the British pound Sterling abroad” Was true generally. Given that we all agree that the Scottish Pound is British and we fond massive cites for Scottish notes being rejected not only abroad but also in England, we can see that you were in error about British money because of your anglocentrism making you see the British pound as those notes issued by the Bank of England. Aside from your unclear answer to the David Hume case, you committed similar errors on each other point and tried to defend your errors in the same manner. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/948 "2015-01-08T16:48:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I assume **Pjen** refers with disdain to all UK coin as “welsh coins”, issued as it is by the UK Royal Mint in Wales, as she does to UK notes as “english notes”, issued as they are by the UK central bank the Bank Of England in England. The Royal Mint stamp coins which in certain combinations are legal tender across the whole UK. They are issued by the Bank of England. The Bank of England issues scrip that is legal tender in England and Wales. Scottish and NI banks, the BofE issue scrip that may or may not be legal tender, but such scrip and the coins are legal currency across the whole of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/949 "2015-01-08T16:56:02Z")
The Royal Mint is a Government owned company that mints coins and other items such as medals for many countries and organisation. It does not issue any legal tender or currency; it manufactures it. The BofE purchases such coins and then issues them as legal tender and currency for the UK. Being minted in Wales no more makes British coin any more Welsh than it makes foreign currency manufactured by the Mint Welsh. Do you see the fallacy of your argument? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/950 "2015-01-08T17:16:00Z")
The point of the “argument” was that it was a fallacy, as is your constant referrals to “English” notes. There’s no such thing, and quite apart from the fact that BoE notes are acceptable in the entire UK you insult the Welsh by conflating them with the English. Thereby committing exactly the same error you falsely accuse me of doing, when you mistakenly think I conflate Scotland and England Any bank or supermarket will take non-BoE sterling notes. I once had to get a manager to check a NI note I had, but apart from that there’s no problem with them. That’s why on several occasions, when friends have received them, I’ve happily swapped them for BoE notes if they were concerned. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/951 "2015-01-08T17:16:24Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It can cause difficulty trying to change a two dollar bill in the States for the same reason- ignorance and rarity. > > And speaking as a country that has the most ragged and low valued notes in the western world, maybe you will excuse us if we don’t take advice from you. Never mind being the only country that fails to vary the size of its notes to help the blinds and which has notes which have minimal colour variation. > > Glass house argument. Take it from me then. Issuing notably different currency is about the stupidest thing I ever heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/952 "2015-01-08T17:21:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Take it from me then. Issuing notably different currency is about the stupidest thing I ever heard of. Well, yeah. The surprising thing is that it _isn’t_ difficult to use or exchange them. Any bank and almost all shops will take them. It’s one of those things that really isn’t a big deal, and nearly everyone in the UK just accepts it. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/953 "2015-01-08T17:44:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The point of the “argument” was that it was a fallacy, as is your constant referrals to “English” notes. There’s no such thing, and quite apart from the fact that BoE notes are acceptable in the entire UK you insult the Welsh by conflating them with the English. Thereby committing exactly the same error you falsely accuse me of doing, when you mistakenly think I conflate Scotland and England > > Any bank or supermarket will take non-BoE sterling notes. I once had to get a manager to check a NI note I had, but apart from that there’s no problem with them. That’s why on several occasions, when friends have received them, I’ve happily swapped them for BoE notes if they were concerned. Half of the people in the Which survey disagree with you. But don’t let facts get in your way. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/954 "2015-01-08T17:45:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Take it from me then. Issuing notably different currency is about the stupidest thing I ever heard of. As is having bills from $100to $1 the same size and colour. Green house argument. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/955 "2015-01-08T17:47:18Z")
Speaking of glass houses… I am in Canada btw. We vary the colours and 1 & 2 dolars are coins. Also, our bills have Braille. Top that bucko. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/956 "2015-01-08T17:48:06Z")
@Steophan - I note you have become very silent about the Royal Mint. You do this when you know you have lost an argument. We shall revisit yurt other errors shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/957 "2015-01-08T17:51:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Speaking of glass houses… I have never maintained that the British system is sensible, merely that it is true. I don’t see the glass house there. Whereas someone with unicolour same size currency which is issued to ridiculously low values and has one bill that is frequently refused when proffered probably has little to offer regarding a rational structure for currency. Oh, and not having the subsidiary values on its silver coins. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/958 "2015-01-08T17:52:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Speaking of glass houses… > > I am in Canada btw. We vary the colours and 1 & 2 dolars are coins. Also, our bills have Braille. Top that bucko. I withdraw. At least your money is sensible. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/959 "2015-01-08T17:52:48Z")
Hey, you know what they say. Those who live in glass yurts shouldn’t make it rain with Monopoly money. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/960 "2015-01-08T17:54:37Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > @Steophan - I note you have become very silent about the Royal Mint. You do this when you know you have lost an argument. Er, what? You see no contradiction in referring to BoE notes as English, but Royal Mint coins as British, and nothing you’ve posted changes that. The BoE notes are no more (or less) English than the Mint’s coins are Welsh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=49)