# Where does the Scottish Everendum stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026 "2014-12-01T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/981 "2015-01-09T16:29:24Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Reminds me of when Andy Murray had his first Wimbledon final in 2012. The meme of the time was that when he won he was British but when he lost he was Scottish. I happened to be in Scotland for a cousin’s wedding at the time and heard the same thing said again in the days before the final. The worst Murray-related one was the backlash in England when he said he’d be supporting their opponents at the World Cup (Paraguay if I remember correctly). It was a comment made in the middle of some joking with Tim Henman about Scotland’s poor footballing performance, but from the reaction you’d think he’d suggested killing anyone south of the border. Not England’s finest moment. There’s certainly some truth to the “British winners, Scottish losers” thing, but the English tend to be harder on losers of whatever origin than the smaller countries, due to the (false) perception that we “deserve” to win. That said, it remains mildly irritating that most English will support Wales, Scotland or Ireland, but that it’s not reciprocated. Understandable, but still mildly irritating. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/982 "2015-01-09T16:39:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The worst Murray-related one was the backlash in England when he said he’d be supporting their opponents at the World Cup (Paraguay if I remember correctly). It was a comment made in the middle of some joking with Tim Henman about Scotland’s poor footballing performance, but from the reaction you’d think he’d suggested killing anyone south of the border. Not England’s finest moment. > > There’s certainly some truth to the “British winners, Scottish losers” thing, but the English tend to be harder on losers of whatever origin than the smaller countries, due to the (false) perception that we “deserve” to win. That said, it remains mildly irritating that most English will support Wales, Scotland or Ireland, but that it’s not reciprocated. Understandable, but still mildly irritating. Do you support the Republic of Ireland as well as Northern Ireland (assuming they are not playing England)? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/983 "2015-01-09T16:53:40Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > Do you support the Republic of Ireland as well as Northern Ireland (assuming they are not playing England)? I think many got very used to supporting the Republic of Ireland when none of the home nations qualified for USA’94. It also helped that half the team had regional British accents. So yeah, I do. I go England-\>Scotland-\>Wales or Northern Ireland-\>Republic of Ireland-\>Canada-\>English speaking country-\>any team that a friend wants to win ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/984 "2015-01-09T16:54:38Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > Do you support the Republic of Ireland as well as Northern Ireland (assuming they are not playing England)? I don’t follow much sport these days but yes, I certainly have done. Certainly when they had Jack Charlton managing, and players who were born in England, or played regularly in First Division (as it was). The combined Irish Rugby team perhaps helps as well, and I’d obviously support them over the French! It may not make all that much sense, but that’s the way I feel, and plenty of people I know feel as well. ETA Maybe this is a bad day to joke about hating the French, so I hope that there’s no-one here affected by the tragedies there who could be offended. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/985 "2015-01-09T19:23:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I don’t follow much sport these days but yes, I certainly have done. Certainly when they had Jack Charlton managing, and players who were born in England, or played regularly in First Division (as it was). > > The combined Irish Rugby team perhaps helps as well, and I’d obviously support them over the French! It may not make all that much sense, but that’s the way I feel, and plenty of people I know feel as well. > > ETA Maybe this is a bad day to joke about hating the French, so I hope that there’s no-one here affected by the tragedies there who could be offended. > [@amanset](#): > > I think many got very used to supporting the Republic of Ireland when none of the home nations qualified for USA’94. It also helped that half the team had regional British accents. > > So yeah, I do. I go England-\>Scotland-\>Wales or Northern Ireland-\>Republic of Ireland-\>Canada-\>English speaking country-\>any team that a friend wants to win Thanks, both interesting replies, both make sense. I just asked out of interest not for any kind of point scoring. I quite like to see France win because I sometimes holiday there but I’ve never wanted the Republic of Ireland to win. Nothing against them just don’t care if they ever win. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/986 "2015-01-10T17:27:20Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > Thanks, both interesting replies, both make sense. > I just asked out of interest not for any kind of point scoring. > > I quite like to see France win because I sometimes holiday there but I’ve never wanted the Republic of Ireland to win. Nothing against them just don’t care if they ever win. As an example of the “whoever a friend wants to win”, I fully supported Germany through the last World Cup as a good friend of mine here is German. ETA: It is also nice to “win” occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/987 "2015-02-25T07:28:01Z")
An analysis of the everendum in the Unionist Scotsman: > **[Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?](https://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam)** > > "There is far more violence in the Bible than in the Qur'an; the idea that Islam imposed itself by the sword is a Western fiction, fabricated during the time of the Crusades when, in fact, it was Western Christians who were fighting brutal holy wars ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/988 "2015-02-25T07:52:15Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > An analysis of the everendum in the Unionist Scotsman: > > [Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam? - Middle East Forum](http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam) That is, perhaps, the most relevant thing you’ve ever posted about the everendum. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/989 "2015-02-25T08:11:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That is, perhaps, the most relevant thing you’ve ever posted about the everendum. Not really. If you check back it is one of my original arguments exactly. I see the situation as win win no matter what the Westminster result. If Labour win there will be accommodation in order to form a government. If the Tories form a government which is at total opposition to Scottish views, it will increase the pressure for a ferendum. I raised the exact problem of the Brexit referendum being against the will of the Celtic fringes. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/990 "2015-02-25T08:13:36Z")
From Post 1 With an SNP Scottish Government, a majority of the population in favour of massive further devolution at least, and with the SNP possibly being power brokers in Westminster in six months, how can further devolution possibly be avoided? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/991 "2015-02-25T08:33:57Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Not really. If you check back it is one of my original arguments exactly. I see the situation as win win no matter what the Westminster result. If Labour win there will be accommodation in order to form a government. If the Tories form a government which is at total opposition to Scottish views, it will increase the pressure for a ferendum. I raised the exact problem of the Brexit referendum being against the will of the Celtic fringes. Personally, I think that saying that Judaism is more violent than Islam because of the Bible is a facile argument. Of course a Bronze Age story will be violent - just look at the _Iliad_, another prominent work from that period and area of the world, which makes the Bible look like Shel Silverstein. A religion should be judged based on how it is now, not how it was three thousand years ago. The same applies to the High Medieval culture of the Crusaders. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/992 "2015-02-25T08:35:47Z")
Wrong quote, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/993 "2015-02-25T08:55:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Personally, I think that saying that Judaism is more violent than Islam because of the Bible is a facile argument. Of course a Bronze Age story will be violent - just look at the _Iliad_, another prominent work from that period and area of the world, which makes the Bible look like Shel Silverstein. A religion should be judged based on how it is now, not how it was three thousand years ago. The same applies to the High Medieval culture of the Crusaders. I would join any religion formed by Shel Silverstein, just saying. More for his vaguely puerile songwriting than cloying children’s books though. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/994 "2015-02-25T09:50:13Z")
[http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-whitaker-scottish-independence-take-two-1-3700543](http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-whitaker-scottish-independence-take-two-1-3700543) Corrected reference. Tablet glitch- the above was a cite for rebuttal of a racist anti Islam post elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026/995 "2015-02-25T12:19:54Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > [http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-whitaker-scottish-independence-take-two-1-3700543](http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-whitaker-scottish-independence-take-two-1-3700543) > > Corrected reference. Tablet glitch- the above was a cite for rebuttal of a racist anti Islam post elsewhere. Fascinating “what if” article. Absolutely fascinating. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-scottish-everendum-stand/706026.md?page=49)