# Where does the term "86" come from?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [November 14, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243 "2003-11-14T14:18:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Paul.Streeter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul.Streeter)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/1 "2003-11-14T14:18:47Z")
I wonder if the telegraphers’ codes were involved, perhaps by soda jerks picking up on them as CB-ers picked up and mutilated the ten codes, (10-4 for yes, etc) . Ham radio operators still use “73” for “best regards” at the end of a QSO (conversation). Actually, we usually misuse it by saying “seventy threes” in a voice conversation. Since 73 is already plural, making it pkural makes it come out “Best Regardses.” “30” stands for “end of transmission” or “end of story” and “88” means “love and kisses.” Perhaps 87½ came from that.
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### Author:  [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/2 "2003-11-14T15:09:10Z")
Link to Cecil’s column: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_291b.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_291b.html)
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### Author:  [@breifing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breifing)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/3 "2003-11-14T16:45:34Z")
It is true as Cecil suggests that the term came about in the '20s, but the reason is actually becuase of a speak-easy on 86 Bedford Street in New York’s west village called Chumley’s. Legend has it that when the police would raid the popular night spot, the bartenders would yell “86 it” which ment cut out. To this day, the only identifying markings are the bronze numbers 86 on the door.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/4 "2003-11-14T16:51:23Z")
**breifing,** either give us a cite (if you’re serious) or a smiley (if you’re kidding). 🙂
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### Author:  [@erosen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erosen1)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/5 "2003-11-14T17:07:40Z")
From my days as a bartender, I learned that the term “to be 86’d” refers back to the days of the old west. At that time most of the booze was 100 proof. If a customer was obviously too intoxicated to handle this, a special bottle of 86 proof (actually the current level of alcohol in todays liquors) was poured from hence the term of being “86’d”
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### Author:  [@breifing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breifing)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/6 "2003-11-14T17:08:13Z")
The “cite” is word of mouth, and many beers sitting at the bar, but a quick google search found [www.foodreference.com/html/art86.html](http://www.foodreference.com/html/art86.html)
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/7 "2003-11-14T22:18:04Z")
The ‘86’ term doesn’t go back to the Old West. How one can think that an alcoholic beverage which is 14% lower in alcoholic content will be something that will keep the customer from becoming more intoxicated is just too funny.
**briefing**. Welcome. The Chumley’s explanation is entertaining, but wrong.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/8 "2003-11-14T22:28:10Z")
I should have offered what I posted in an earlier thread about Chumley’s
Read Michael Quinion’s column:[http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm)
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/9 "2003-11-14T23:09:29Z")
Sounds like rhyming slang to me. ‘86’ rhymes with ‘Nix’. Period.
Leave it to a bunch of sepos[sup]\*[/sup] to be confused.
\*[sub]“Septic tank” rhymes with “Yank”.[/sub]
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### Author:  [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/10 "2003-11-15T22:45:37Z")
The numeric telegraph codes that **Paul.Streeter** refers to appear to date back to the “92 Code” adopted by Western Union in the late 1850s. However, this code either skipped some numbers, or a few quickly dropped out of general use, because none of the reviews I’ve seen include any meaning for “86”. A two-page summary of the history of these codes is located at the [Morse Telegraph Club Information Booth](http://members.tripod.com/morse_telegraph_club/informat.htm) site – see the “Western Union 92 code and railway manual block codes” entries for more details.
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### Author:  [@rthendrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rthendrix)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/11 "2003-11-17T20:56:59Z")
I, too, heard the Chumley’s story from a long-time denizen (who’s tenure didn’t go back to Prohibition, unfortunately). There are indeed a number of exits to Chumley’s, some hidden behind bookcases affixed to hinges. And one entrance/exit is at 86 Bedford.
I would like to provide a cite, but have not found one yet. However, other than the fact that six rymes with nix, I don’t see any other adequately documented explanations, including Cecil’s.
Use of the term prior to the onset of Prhoibition in 1920 would eliminate the Chumley’s explanation, but I have not seen any documentation of such.
I can’t believe Cecil missed the opportunity to cover Chumley’s. The place is famous for, among other things, providing a pass-out room upstairs for Hemmingway and for hosting F. Scott Fitzgerald who, allegedly, consummated his desire for a woman other than his wife in one of the booths.
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/12 "2003-11-17T22:21:53Z")
Another read on the 86 Bedford Street speak-easy. A program on the History Channel spoke of this famous address, and the fall away shelves which could be tripped by a bartender to make all of the demon rum go down the drain as the the Untouchables busted down the door. Booze? What booze? 😃
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### Author:  [@BoloJungle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoloJungle)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/13 "2003-11-17T22:45:31Z")
It’s Chumley’s in NYC. It was a term used during prohibition (as reported on the History Channel) and has long been a part of the Chumley’s history. Stop by for a drink (if you can find it) - it is still much the same today as it was then.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/14 "2003-11-18T03:19:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> It’s Chumley’s in NYC. It was a term used during prohibition (as reported on the History Channel)
And the History Channel knows it was in use during prohibition HOW?
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### Author:  [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/15 "2003-11-18T08:26:59Z")
This is a question that I’ve wondered about for many years (having worked in restaurants for the last 20 years). I heard the Chumley’s story about five years ago and took it as a plausible explanation (great place to go to for a pint). It is, however, an oral tradition, so there will always be conjecture as to its true origin.
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### Author:  [@SBWittox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SBWittox)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/16 "2003-11-18T17:47:44Z")
I was once told by a Chef that there originally were 85 different cuts of beef from cattle. 86 is a term used in the kitchen to mean there are no more left. (No more cuts left). Sounded reasonable to me.
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### Author:  [@wdhyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wdhyte)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/17 "2003-11-18T21:30:48Z")
From a buddy of mine that is an amateur ‘historian’ of sorts…merely another melody on a theme…
""86’d " is a term that originated in California sometime in the '50’s. Something like the California Alcohol Control Board (or whatever it was) Article 86 stated that bartenders had the responsibility to refuse to serve alcohol to anyone who appeared to be inebriated. Therefore, if you happened to have had a snootful, and the bartender was aware of it, you could be “86’d”).
So, who knows eh?!
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/18 "2003-11-19T05:45:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by wdhyte \*
> \*\*From a buddy of mine that is an amateur ‘historian’ of sorts…merely another melody on a theme…
> ""86’d " is a term that originated in California sometime in the '50’s. Something like the California Alcohol Control Board (or whatever it was) Article 86 stated that bartenders had the responsibility to refuse to serve alcohol to anyone who appeared to be inebriated. Therefore, if you happened to have had a snootful, and the bartender was aware of it, you could be “86’d”).
>
> So, who knows eh?! \*\*
Well, anyone who’s read this thread and Cecil’s article knows that the term existed before the 1950’s in California. So that’s just plain out.
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### Author:  [@BarkingDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarkingDog)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/19 "2003-11-20T02:17:33Z")
Any possibility that the term might be related to Article 86—Absence without leave from the military? This has been suggested by a local reporter and it does have some resonance. Thoughts?
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### Author:  [@jimbo\_jones\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbo_jones_1)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-the-term-86-come-from/213243/20 "2003-11-20T05:10:04Z")
It’s obvious its Maxwell Smarts code name from Get Smart.
Which is 86.
am I right or am I right?
Jimbo
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