# Where does your ‘willing suspension of disbelief’ stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746 "2021-07-05T14:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/242 "2021-10-05T18:33:30Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Even in the sixth grade, I knew that sound doesn’t travel through the vacuum of space. This was even worse than Ancient Greeks, Israelites, Britons, et al. speaking perfect 20th century colloquial American English. Speaking of this-----in Superman II the Kryptonian villains land on the Moon and talk perfect English to an astronaut who is in a sealed spacesuit, ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/243 "2021-10-05T19:11:22Z")
> [@tavaritz](#): > > One that I hate so much is the final of Criminal Minds. Speaking of: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hkDD03yeLnU/hqdefault.jpg "GUI interface using visual basic to track the killers IP address CSI") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU) ETA: Ah, that was CSI, wasn’t it. Same-same, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/244 "2021-10-06T13:47:54Z")
I love the cheesy 60’s sci-fi and decided to binge-watch Space:1999. I haven’t seen it since I was a child. So we start with nuclear waste exploding setting the Moon off … where exactly? A place where they visit other solar systems? Do they steer that thing? What did that signal in the beginning have to do with anything? If you can’t believe in the basic premise of the show it is never going to work. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/245 "2021-10-06T13:54:05Z")
I agree with your assessment, but _Space: 1999_ was cheesy **1970s** sci-fi > **[Space: 1999](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_1999)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > Space: 1999 is a British science-fiction television programme that ran for two series from 1975 to 1977. In the opening episode, set in the year 1999, nuclear waste stored on the Moon's far side explodes, knocking the Moon out of orbit and sending it, as well as the 311 inhabitants of Moonbase Alpha, hurtling uncontrollably into space. Space: 1999 was the last production by the partnership of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson and was the most expensive... ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/246 "2021-10-06T14:00:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I love the cheesy 60’s sci-fi and decided to binge-watch Space:1999. What are you watching it on? I watched it as a kid too, around 10 or 11. I remember being excited by the concept when I heard of it, but when I started watching it I didn’t really like it. I think I found it boring and slow-paced, being too used to Star Trek space battles and constant alien drama. I wouldn’t mind giving it a re-watch to see what adult me thinks of it. Probably like you, I will still dislike it, but for different reasons than 10 year old me did. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/247 "2021-10-06T15:01:15Z")
> [@solost](#): > > What are you watching it on? I’m watching it on my DVDs. I know - ancient tech. I have all the eps, now and forever. Anyway, in Sparce 1999’s defense, not ALL the episodes were bad, but the bad ones are _really_ blindingly stupid. British sci-fi is a genre unto itself, with its own sensibilities and conventions. Lack of understanding of science and how to pace a story being the biggest differences. 🙂 Reliance on “mysterious forces” and people standing around staring with blank looks that no one in the audience can understand what they are doing are two more. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So we start with nuclear waste exploding setting the Moon off … where exactly? A place where they visit other solar systems? Do they steer that thing? What did that signal in the beginning have to do with anything? It blasts “out of orbit”. Now in our real world it would just go into a larger orbit around the earth, or maybe even around the sun. But the Moon has a Destiny. It is being guided by the MUF, the Mysterious Unknown Force. This was only mentioned once by Dr Bergman, and only in speculation as to why they have survived, so it would be easy to miss. This sort of justifies how they wander into so many troubled systems like a cosmic Mary Worth and fix their issues before moving on. Their Destiny is to guide others per the inscrutable plans of the MUF. And somehow the MUF moves them at FTL speeds from one solar system to another, placing them just where they need to be. In other words, “A wizard did it”. Or it’s just more stupidity and you find it unwatchable. And you can’t buy that the Alphans are so clueless that they never question how they have traveled hundreds (at least) of light years through the empty void between the stars, that should have taken thousands years, and never noticed? And that you think the writers are so stupid they think the galaxy is no bigger than the Pacific ocean would be to a wandering raft. I wouldn’t fault anyone for feeling that way! Personally, I wish they had gone in a different direction, or at least bothered to explain this to the audience. When the basic premise of your show is so incredibly STUPID that it can’t work without mystical mumbo-jumbo, maybe you should try something else? Or as Gerry Anderson himself said about the “inscrutableness” of S1999, “How understated can something be before it becomes unstated?” And the Signal? Never mentioned again. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/248 "2021-10-06T15:06:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But the Moon has a Destiny. It is being guided by the MUF, the Mysterious Unknown Force. MUFs were indeed mysterious to me when I first watched as a 10-11 year old boy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/249 "2021-10-06T15:14:34Z")
The perfect exemplar for what I can and cannot tolerate is Isaac Asimov’s novel _The Stars Like Dust_. Things I can accept: - Interstellar spaceships - “Hyperatomics” whatever the f they are - FTL communication - An ancient secret weapon that will bring down an intergalactic empire Thing I 100% cannot accept: - That secret weapon is a copy of the United States Constitution I have no problem with handwavy mumbo jumbo science, no matter how ludicrous. But stupid culture or politics will take me right out of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/250 "2021-10-06T17:21:11Z")
> [@solost](#): > > What are you watching it on? Netflix. But I bailed on it (hence why it is in this thread) and am now binging Mission: Impossible on ParamountPlus. Still in the “Good morning, Mr. Briggs.” season. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/251 "2021-10-06T17:59:01Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Still in the “Good morning, Mr. Briggs.” season. Try to spot all the times they had to work around Hill because he a) wouldn’t work on the Sabbath or b) just wouldn’t work…because. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/252 "2021-10-06T18:35:04Z")
And he was shocked that after his experiences on Mission: Impossible it took him decades to get a series. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/253 "2021-10-06T18:57:19Z")
A note on _ **Space: 1999** _: The mood in the first season was supposed to echo that of _ **2001: A Space Odyssey** _. This is why almost all episodes were so excrutiatingly slow and boring. They were going for “Mystery” and “The Wonder of It All.” It was completely revamped in the second season to be more like _ **Star Trek** _ with action, adventure, and occasional comic relief. They even introduced a character (played by Catherine Schell) with pointed ears, who became the Moonbase’s “Science Officer.” This is hardly surprising, since the new producer they hired was … (wait for it!) … Fred Freiburger, who produced the mostly cringeworthy third season of _ **Star Trek** _. Before the second season started, Martin :Landau gave an interview in which he said “I’ve seen some of the new scripts, and they are 500% better than last year’s.” Yeah, right, Marty. Lots better. 🥺 Thank the Mysterious Unknown Force that it ended when it did! 🤮 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/254 "2021-10-06T19:04:16Z")
Basic violation of Newton will do it. The 2nd spider man movie has a perfect example. Doc Ock and Spidey are fighting on a train. In one of the sequences, Ock picks up spider man, _throws SM forward_, then turns around three seconds later as a now-landing-from-his-throw SM _tackles him from behind_. What the actual fuck? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/z00fTwhmYX0/maxresdefault.jpg "Spider-Man 2.1 Extended Train Fight Scene (HD)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/255 "2021-10-06T19:15:05Z")
In the episode of _ **Due South** _ set on board a train, Fraser is tossed off by the bad guys in the middle of nowhere. The train keeps rolling on to its destination, but Benjy’s suddenly back on board a few minutes later His hot female SO (Superior Officer) is astonished. “How did you…?” Benton replies “That’s not important,” and gets on with the job of stopping the bad guys. The first two seasons of the show were really good, but like _ **Star Trek** _, it started going downhill after that. Bits like this became increasingly common and soon ceased to be comic rellief. They were just stupid. I sat through the truncated third and fourth seasons simply to see how things would turn out, and haven’t been able to watch it since. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/256 "2021-10-06T19:33:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Fraser is tossed off by the bad guys in the middle of nowhere. The train keeps rolling on to its destination, but Benjy’s suddenly back on board a few minutes later I just watched the new FBI: International. The team gets on an elevator going down down down into the cryptocurrency vault, while the Boss Lady stays behind on the phone, When the team gets to the bottom, Boss Lady is already there. No wonder she’s the boss! It wasn’t played for laughs. Doesn’t the actress at least remember, let alone the continuity person? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/257 "2021-10-06T19:44:10Z")
The instant I hear a Wilhelm scream. It’s like the director/producer just popped a giant middle finger on the screen, the whole project was always just a joke to them and aren’t you a sucker for getting into the story which was always only a vehicle for that cheesy effect. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/258 "2021-10-07T12:11:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I love the cheesy 60’s sci-fi and decided to binge-watch Space:1999. I haven’t seen it since I was a child. So we start with nuclear waste exploding setting the Moon off … where exactly? A place where they visit other solar systems? Do they steer that thing? What did that signal in the beginning have to do with anything? If you can’t believe in the basic premise of the show it is never going to work. I found ‘Space: 1999’ on IMDB TV and watched the first one last night. It wasn’t quite as slow as I remember as a kid, but a lot slower than that intro with the action scene medley and the jazzy, kicky theme music promised. I can definitely see the ‘2001: A Space Odyssey’ influence that @terentii mentioned. As for the science, yeah, kinda questionable. What was up with that planet Meta-- what solar system was it supposed to be in? Was it supposed to be a previously undiscovered planet in our system? Seems unlikely. And I didn’t get what the signal from it was supposed to mean either- proof of intelligent life? And the whole 'radioactivity isn’t the problem, it’s magnetism, which we didn’t even think to check for!" Uh, the spaceships passed Site 1 all the time. Wouldn’t out of control magnetism have been easy to notice, affecting their instrumentation or something? And magnetism or not, I’m not sure how that would lead to an explosion of the radioactive material. And I’m no astrophysicist, but it seems like it would have to be an awfully big explosion to kick the Moon out of Earth’s orbit. And yeah, how do they steer that thing? At the end Martin Landau said something to the effect of “planet Meta is our only hope”. Pretty lucky that the wayward moon just happens to be headed there. And hopefully the moon is travelling pretty fast, because getting to planet Meta has got to be quite the journey. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/259 "2021-10-07T12:25:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The 2nd spider man movie has a perfect example. Doc Ock and Spidey are fighting on a train. In one of the sequences, Ock picks up spider man, _throws SM forward_ , then turns around three seconds later as a now-landing-from-his-throw SM _tackles him from behind_ . Pardon my terrible physics, but is this really that bad? Doc and SM start on the train, moving 50 mph or so. Doc throws SM up in an arc, with, say, a starting speed of 50 mph (plus 50 mph for the starting momentum, for a total of 100 mph). During that arc, SM is going to slow his forward momentum, just as anything does when it’s thrown in an atmosphere. He’ll start at 100 mph, but air resistance will slow him down. And his total speed is in a parabolic arc, not a straight line. At the end of his leap, he spreads out, which will catch extra air resistance. Meanwhile, Doc is progressing forward at exactly the same speed–the speed of the train. If SM’s air resistance suffices to slow him down, is this scene really so bad? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/260 "2021-10-07T12:35:32Z")
So… if he slows down, how does he then speed up to tackle Doc? Seriously, watch the scene. It happens exactly like I described. There is no massive changes in relative velocities for either parties. Spider man doesn’t change his velocity. Doc Ock can’t- he is on a train and those things don’t speed and stop on a dime, so both of their velocities remain constant. The only object moving in relation to Doc and the train is Spidey, and, because of the throw, he is moving faster than both. He goes through the Skywalk w/o touching it and, his relative velocity _still greater than the person who threw him_, somehow, this allows Spidey to tackle doc from behind. Even though doc threw him forward. BUT to do what we see, Spidey has to be thrown forward, then slow himself so that Doc can be ahead of Spidey, then Spidey accelerates himself again so he can tackle Doc. And he does not do this. It’s quite clear he doesn’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/261 "2021-10-07T12:39:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So… if he slows down, how does he then speed up to tackle Doc? That’s actually a really good point. Never mind! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746.md?page=14)