# Where does your ‘willing suspension of disbelief’ stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746 "2021-07-05T14:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/142 "2021-07-13T06:49:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You can suspend disbelief that people in a galaxy far far away look like Earth humans, but not that they developed similar screw technology? I always assumed that “a long time ago in a galaxy far far away” thing was supposed to be a joke. You know, to make it sound like a fairy tale. Obviously it looked a lot more like the future than the past. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/143 "2021-07-13T06:50:39Z")
America under Trump. Still many crazies around waiting for him to get reinstated in August. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/144 "2021-07-13T11:31:18Z")
any movie/show story where someone seriously declares themselves to be evil or swears loyalty to evil … ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/145 "2021-07-13T11:56:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > 1. The reason why the draftees were all overweight and elderly or otherwise did not fit the typical soldier profile was that they were down to scraps. Remember, for whatever scientific reason, the only people who could make the jump were the ones that were not alive in 30 years. It is likely that they had already went through most of the young people who would die in car crashes and the like (although Chris Pratt slipped through the cracks) and they were desperate and down to the scraps. Except even there, they violated their own rules. They made a point of all the world’s armed forces having already been sent forward and killed, which is why they’re drafting regular people. So, are we to think that, in the original timeline, every soldier in the world, including the young and very fit ones, all died within the next 30 years? Implausible at best. > [@UltraVires](#): > > 1. The guns weren’t useless or underpowered. Due to a lack of training with them, they were unable to do the shot to the belly, shot to the head thing that was demonstrated. Yes, they did drop this one tidbit of information, but anyone who’s ever shot a gun knows that trying to hit one or two small areas on a moving target (while said target is actively trying to kill and eat you, no less) is incredibly difficult. Any battle plan that relied on people with a single week’s worth of training doing this reliably was doomed from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/146 "2021-07-13T12:02:19Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I always assumed that “a long time ago in a galaxy far far away” thing was supposed to be a joke. You know, to make it sound like a fairy tale. Obviously it looked a lot more like the future than the past. It’s not the future. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/k9tgLnI0fFc/maxresdefault.jpg ""NOT THE FUTURE" -- Extended Lyric Video") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9tgLnI0fFc) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/147 "2021-07-13T12:03:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Which tells us change like in “The Handmaid’s Tale” can actually happen very fast. > [@Biffster](#): > > America under Trump. Still many crazies around waiting for him to get reinstated in August. Yeah, Obama to trump was a pretty quick script flip. Fortunately things didn’t get quite as dystopian as they could have. But trumpism hasn’t quite been banished to the dustbin of history yet. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/148 "2021-07-13T14:00:49Z")
I refuse to believe that an intelligent race could invent the Phillips screw. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/149 "2021-07-13T14:56:37Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Near future dystopias… sorry. Can’t believe that the world goes to hell in a handbasket that fast. I LOVE Escape from New York. But… Turing America into a fascist police state in 16 years - I would have said no, but since trump…I’m not so sure. Turning Manhattan island into a prison? No way! Relocating 1.5 million people, taking over the most expensive real estate in the country? Not buying it. (except for the Bluray. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/150 "2021-07-13T15:09:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Not to mention that they fashoned their lightsabers from recycled camera flashes. No, it’s the other way. The Speed Grafic was developed from an ancient Light Saber found in a swamp. It had survived all these years, but the power cells were near dead. All it could do when turned on was emit one flash of light (no saber). Which turned out to be almost as useful as a light saber, minus the accidentally hacking your own arm off issue. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/151 "2021-07-13T15:20:45Z")
I believe Phillips is designed to cam-out before overtorquing the threaded portion of the screw. Existence of it in Star Wars implies: 1. they do not construct fasteners from higher strength alloys capable of withstanding typical torque from hand-tools. 2. they do not have convenient access to tools that can measure, auto-apply, or limit appropriate levels of torque / fastener stretch to avoid fastener failure. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/152 "2021-07-13T15:22:14Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Except even there, they violated their own rules. They made a point of all the world’s armed forces having already been sent forward and killed, which is why they’re drafting regular people. > > So, are we to think that, in the original timeline, every soldier in the world, including the young and very fit ones, all died within the next 30 years? Implausible at best. I think they were selective on who they sent forward - they only sent people who were done procreating and would be dead soon. They were getting desperate by the time they drafted Chris Pratt - he was going to die in 6 or 7 years. The guy in his patrol who kept re-upping was expecting to die of cancer in 6 months. And, yes, all the fit ones are going to die within the next 30 years - they were down to 500,000 humans by then - 99.99% of the human race was gone. They pretty much ignored the time paradoxes, however. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/153 "2021-07-13T17:13:34Z")
Bwahahaha! That’s pretty detailed. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/154 "2021-07-13T18:38:44Z")
I will stretch pretty far if it’s a good story. If the characters and plot are compelling, I’ll notice gigantic holes in the plot but it will only slightly affect my enjoyment of the work. For example, as others have said, many details of how the wizarding world in Harry Potter is organized socially/politically and how it interacts with the Muggle world are left to our imaginations, and I can’t imagine any way it could be explained plausibly. Stephen King’s The Institute is a recent book I quite enjoyed, despite the fact that the plot hinges on a enormous international conspiracy committing horrible crimes for decades and remaining completely undetected. Like a conspiracy theory several orders of magnitude less plausible than “Biden stole the election”. I still didn’t put it down unless necessary once I had started. And remember the scene in one of the Dragon Tattoo books where the heroine is shot in the head and buried…then regains consciousness and digs herself out? Loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/155 "2021-07-13T18:47:16Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > And, yes, all the fit ones are going to die within the next 30 years - they were down to 500,000 humans by then - 99.99% of the human race was gone. Fair enough, but by that logic, they could pretty much recruit almost anyone, couldn’t they? Clearly this whole part wasn’t well-thought out. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/156 "2021-07-13T19:15:52Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Fair enough, but by that logic, they could pretty much recruit almost anyone, couldn’t they? Clearly this whole part wasn’t well-thought out. Oh, agreed. “well thought out” is not a phrase that could be applied to pretty much any aspect of the movie, ESPECIALLY those parts involved with time travel. (edited because the quoting feature gorped out on me) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/157 "2021-07-13T19:16:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Remember, for whatever scientific reason, the only people who could make the jump were the ones that were not alive in 30 years. It is likely that they had already went through most of the young people who would die in car crashes and the like Yes, but almost everyone is dead in the future. They should have quite a number to pick from. Not to mention, with a 70% fatality rate, most should have DC’s that say, “Sent to the future, did not return.” > [@UltraVires](#): > > They did seem to have a confusing part about the toxin—whether to make it in 2021 and then bring it back or use it in 2021 and stop the war. And the McGuffin about the toxin was just as silly. Why not come back, and simply warn humanity of the upcoming war, and have them prepared to fend it off. My first thought on, “they just appeared” was that the came out of the thawing ice, and it ended up being a thought of a protagonist later in the film as well. So, some expeditions to those areas to try to locate them would be useful. It was a big ass ship, that made compasses go nuts. It would have been seen by satellites years ago anyway, not to mention oil companies looking for new deposits to exploit. The toxin wasn’t even really used, they killed 6 or so of the aliens with it, and the rest were killed by C4. Is the toxin really all that useful when you have to get that close to it? Could just put a block of C4 on it if you are going to do that. > [@UltraVires](#): > > And Chris Pratt’s willingness to risk his life in the future was silly as if he succeeds in 2021, then his daughter is in no danger. He wasn’t just risking his life at the end. He was leaping to his death with no hope of personal survival, much less saving anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/158 "2021-07-13T21:01:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, but almost everyone is dead in the future. They should have quite a number to pick from. > > Not to mention, with a 70% fatality rate, most should have DC’s that say, “Sent to the future, did not return.” Well, you could nitpick every time travel movie in this manner. What “version” of time travel are they using in this movie? Time travel is inherently paradoxical so they could use the old “but they haven’t travelled yet, so their future has not changed” thing. But I do agree with the earlier criticism. If there are only 500,000 humans alive (remember that the times of 2021 and 2051 are in sync with each other) then out of the 7.78 billion people alive today, it would be the very rare individual who would not be able to jump. Maybe the science only allows people to jump who were not alive at the start of the war, but that would be a fan fic as they never said that. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > And the McGuffin about the toxin was just as silly. Why not come back, and simply warn humanity of the upcoming war, and have them prepared to fend it off. I thought of that when I was watching, but as of the start of the movie, even the people in the future are unable to defeat the aliens and cannot even hold them off enough to find out how to kill them. Further, the only information that was known about their origin was that no spaceship was spotted and that they first appeared in Russia and spread all over the globe. So given that, what would the people in 2021 do? Monitor all of Russia in 2048? Had they done that, likely the same scenario happens: they search for a spaceship that doesn’t arrive (because it is already here) and then find a bunch of whiteclaws running around that they are unable to control. The only way to win was for the 2051 people to find the toxin and bring it back so people in 2021 could mass produce it for use in the future. Yes, the C4 worked because all of the whiteclaws were confined in one space. You can’t exactly C4 each individual one. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > He wasn’t just risking his life at the end. He was leaping to his death with no hope of personal survival, much less saving anyone else. Agreed. It was absolutely silly for him to be placed into the slightest bit of danger in the future. He should have had a special jump where his only job was to be protected fully, get the female toxin, have his daughter give him the scoop, and travel back. Of course, then no movie action scenes, but everything he did in the future endangered not only his daughter, but all of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/159 "2021-07-13T22:31:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Zero to dystopia in short order is a real thing. Boy Howdy! I can think of another example… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/160 "2021-07-13T22:45:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Not to mention that they fashoned their lightsabers from recycled camera flashes. So Graflex is Canon? ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746/161 "2021-07-14T00:04:28Z")
“Eagles! We could drop the Ring into MT Doom with Eagles!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-does-your-willing-suspension-of-disbelief-stop/945746.md?page=9)