# Where has all the competent sci-fi gone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495 "2003-04-27T15:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/21 "2003-04-28T03:24:25Z")
Well, TOS was so crappy that _Miri_ took place on a copy of Earth as well but I see what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/22 "2003-04-28T03:32:18Z")
In _Miri_, the Enterprise goes down to a planet originally colonized by some fugatives or somesuch, who didn’t want any contact with anyone else. So, they had been isolated. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, et al beam down and find that the population is all dead except for some children. To make a long story short, turns out that the people who lived there had attempted to prolong life by creating a virus-like thing that fought cell death. Unfortunately it didn’t quite work. The kids that were alive in the episode had been kicking around for about 300 years, but when they hit puberty the virus then attacks them and kills 'em. Anyway, I used to like Star Trek, but then the Star Trek franchise stabbed _ **me** _ in the back. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/23 "2003-04-28T03:37:27Z")
C’mon… if you can survive TOS, not even Voyager can be all that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/24 "2003-04-28T03:44:02Z")
Oh… so you’re one of _those_ are you? **gives Aesiron a red shirt to wear, places him in the middle of a large crowd of officers, points a phaser at random, and fires** ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/25 "2003-04-28T03:46:01Z")
Oh, and by the way, I only remembered _Miri_ in such detail because I’m busy re-reading James Blish’s adaptations of the episodes, and just read that one last week, not because I keep a completely clear memory of all episodes in my head at all times. Then again, I’m not sure that that absolves me from geekdom. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/26 "2003-04-28T03:50:30Z")
I have the 25th Anniversary set of James Blish adaptations of TOS in my room and read every one of them years ago. I also have the Star Trek Encyclopedia, the ST:TNG Companion, a couple trivia books, Mr Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise, the TNG Technical Manual, a box full of toys, and about 95% of the Pocket Book novelizations (300 or more), so you don’t have to worry about me thinking of you as a geek. You’re only an apprentice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/27 "2003-04-28T03:52:28Z")
Here’s the problem. Sci-fi shows have a limited apeal to a small niche group. They also cost a heck of a lot more to produce than a show about 5 quirky friends who hang out in the same appartment/bar/coffee shop each week. Also…most sci fi shows are somewhat formulaic. How many diferent adventures can the crew of the Firefly/Voyager/Enterprise/DS9/SG-1/Seaquest/Moya/Andromeda get into each week? How many variations of the dashing wise-cracking spacepirate/his warrior alien best friend/super-hot companion/super-logical alien/comic relief sidekick can you make? In the future, all ships will be the size of an aircraft carrier and regardless of purpose will have beam weapons and shields. Political systems will all resemple fuedal Europe or Japan. Planets all have one form of government and one kind of ecosystem. Aliens take the form of a strangely colored humanoid, a human with ridges or tenticles coming out of his head, something kind of demonic looking or an H.R. Giger creature. So to sum up -expensive -small target audience -formulaic -cliche-ridden ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/28 "2003-04-28T03:58:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > I have the 25th Anniversary set of James Blish adaptations of TOS in my room and read every one of them years ago. > > I also have the Star Trek Encyclopedia, the ST:TNG Companion, a couple trivia books, Mr Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise, the TNG Technical Manual, a box full of toys, and about 95% of the Pocket Book novelizations (300 or more), so you don’t have to worry about me thinking of you as a geek. > > You’re only an apprentice. 😃 Ok, I’ll end this hijack, but in order to now defend my status: I also have the 25th Anniversary set, the ST Encyclopedia, the ST Technical Manual, Mr. S’s guide to the Enterprise, various fan-fic, autobiographies of both Nimoy and Shatner, but I stopped collecting the novelizations around #60 or so, and only of the original series. I re-read most of them every few years or so. Yeah, I’m an original series whore, can’t you tell? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cletus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@cletus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cletus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/29 "2003-04-28T04:43:25Z")
What about Futurama? That’s sci fi. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/30 "2003-04-28T04:49:49Z")
And, unfortunately, canceled I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/31 "2003-04-28T06:31:06Z")
A lot of sci-fi has unfortunately been squished in with mush-headed fantasy stories, at least in the bookstore. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/32 "2003-04-28T11:52:31Z")
Hey, finally somebody else who watches **Jeremiah**! Great choice **joshmaker**. If you’re a fan of post-apocalyptic fiction you’ll love it. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/33 "2003-04-28T13:09:12Z")
People have mentioned budgets already, but it seems there’s also a greater expectation of quality in viewers: no more beaming down to a few polystyrene rocks on a tiny sound stage, no more plastic spacecraft on strings or people in rubber suits. Is sci-fi much more expensive to make now than it used to be? ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/34 "2003-04-28T13:17:40Z")
Someone should make Vernor Vinge’s **The Peace War** into a miniseries. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/35 "2003-04-28T13:28:57Z")
Y’know we’re not mentioning the _other_ staple of SF TV show: the overt anthology(\*), á-la _Twilight Zone_. Which has a problem different from that of the standard episodic series, namely how to make sure every episode IS different from the others and of consistent quality. (\*)As opposed to the “covert” anthology which drives A LOT of traditional episodic TV, in which Our Heroes get thrust into/are witness to otherwise self-standing stories with their own plot (last week: murder mystery; this week: musing on effectiveness of non-violence; next week: Romeo-Juliet-type doomed love; week after: parody of recent political controversy) and often own lead characters, that get resolved on their own merit with Our Heroes often limited to mere catalysts or to filling in for archetypes. A _deliberate, pre-designed, comprehensive_ beginning-middle-end story-arc (as opposed to limited or incidental ones) that mandates watching in sequence is not indispensable: TV shows need not be video novels. But in American TV shows (in various genres) it’s still a relative novelty and something that makes things tough is that second-run syndication in the US traditionally requires being able to fill a 13-week “half-season” with 5-a-week daily showings, i.e. 65 episodes. That’s _three_ seasons of weekly TV. TV being a _commercial entertainment_ enterprise they’ll tend to go for what’s proven profitable. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/36 "2003-04-28T14:30:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by effac3d \* > \*\*The problem in my eyes is they are always confined by the same formula and sets. > > Be it a base like Stargate sg1,or a ship like every Star Trek. > Even a show like Sliders featured a slide every week,why not stay on a world for more than one episode? > Show more continuity,have past actions come back to bite you in the butt in unexpected ways,have old allies show up in times of need.\*\* You mean, like _Babylon 5_ or _Farscape_? Heck, one of the reasons that _Farscape_ started having problems is that it had so _much_ continuity that it was becoming difficult for new viewers to join in and understand what was going on. As an aside, I saw a quote from Kevin Sorbo (somewhere; can’t find it right now) where he said that the reason they were going to standalone episodes in _Andromeda_ and dropping continuity and arcs was because they didn’t want to limit their audience to people who had seen earlier episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/37 "2003-04-28T15:32:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by effac3d \* > \*\*The problem in my eyes is they are always confined by the same formula and sets. > > Be it a base like Stargate sg1,or a ship like every Star Trek. > Even a show like Sliders featured a slide every week,why not stay on a world for more than one episode? > Show more continuity,have past actions come back to bite you in the butt in unexpected ways,have old allies show up in times of need. > > Basically sci-fi on television needs to lose its formulaic nature. \*\* Actually, I think Stargate does a fairly good job of continuity. They tend to have overall episodes, as well as more stand alone ones. In my opinion, it’s one of the best Sci-fi shows on right now. Not the best I’ve ever seen, but better than a lot of other drek. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/38 "2003-04-28T15:40:48Z")
[cranky old curmudgeon] There hasn’t been any good SF since Heinlein quit writing it. [/cranky old curmudgeon] Although I kinda like Niven and Pournelle. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/39 "2003-04-28T18:53:35Z")
The problem isn’t the _writers_ getting lazy. It’s the _producers_ designing by committee. “Yeah, let’s ditch the blonde alien with short hair, and bring in a blonde semi-human with a D cup!” People who work in the TV and film industry (and don’t think it’s art; it’s all about the cash generated by couch potatoes) go for what has worked in the past, but slightly different. The same people who churn out mediocre sitcoms and doctor dramas one day get put in charge of a sci fi show. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495/40 "2003-04-28T19:53:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \* > \*\*[cranky old curmudgeon] > There hasn’t been any good SF since Heinlein quit writing it. > [/cranky old curmudgeon] > > Although I kinda like Niven and Pournelle. \*\* Yeah, too bad Heinlein quit writing it LONG before he quit writing. And when was the last time Larry Niven wrote a novel worth reading? Sixteen years ago is my best estimate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-has-all-the-competent-sci-fi-gone/171495.md?page=3)