# Where have all the hobbyists gone? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2014, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048 "2014-04-26T10:54:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/81 "2014-04-27T15:40:05Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Like **even sven** mentioned, for some cultures hobbies are intertwined with making money or social standing. The incentive to pursue the hobby is from the fact that it is a practical benefit to your life. I don’t know if this would even fall under ‘hobby’. Wouldn’t it just be a ‘job’? If you were good enough at playing the lute to play in the town square to busk for money/play for events and it was as lucrative as pig farming, isn’t that just a job you like doing more than pig farming? I guess at some point there’s a grey area between “Hobby that makes decent money” and “Job I really enjoy working at”. It’s being semi-professional, which is very similar, if possibly a bit more “advanced”, than being a hobbyist. Lots of people pursue something that might be considered a hobby because they can gain prestige, and possibly some money, by doing it really well. That seems to be true around the world, judging by the discussion here. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/82 "2014-04-27T16:33:47Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > About 10 years ago this redneck made up this cool video of how to launch 1,000 bottle rockets at once. Well actually it was poorly edited and filmed but still workable. Actually, THAT is a hobby I wish people would take the time to learn! So much of home made video is so bad! The tools are available-it must just be skill, or not caring. Then we get Madison Avenue taking those trends, and we get faux-crappily edited commercials, such as those ‘blog’ KFC commercials. Does no one care about quality any more? Why do people put up with crappy videos? > [@](#): > > It became an instant hit. Oh. I guess it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/83 "2014-04-27T23:01:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Actually, THAT is a hobby I wish people would take the time to learn! So much of home made video is so bad! The tools are available-it must just be skill, or not caring. > > Then we get Madison Avenue taking those trends, and we get faux-crappily edited commercials, such as those ‘blog’ KFC commercials. Does no one care about quality any more? Why do people put up with crappy videos? > Oh. I guess it doesn’t matter. Go yourself and look up on Youtube "Redneck Rocket Launcher or try here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z53mFymC2U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z53mFymC2U) I’d say its the content over quality on this one. And really the content isnt so bad. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/84 "2014-04-27T23:06:20Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Another thought - imagine what “virtual quilting” could be like. One way could be that you have a program that emulates a sewing machine. There is a foot pedal input, and a touch pad interface. The quilter uses the touch pad to “guide” the material past the virtual needle, activating the virtual machine with the foot pedal. This is like flying model airplanes on the computer-it still requires skill, you can make mistakes - crash the plane, make wavy stitch lines - but they can be corrected easier. > > But, another way could be you just select patterns and use a photoshop-like program to arrange them. The skill set is different. In the first, the skills are manual (can you hold the “material” straight?), in the second, they are artistic (can you make a pleasing pattern?). > > Maybe we are living in the ‘transition period’. Quilts used to be made because people needed blankets. Now, most quits made are purely decorative. Maybe the end result is all that matters? Having a sewing machine emulator is the equivalent of a virtual buggy whip, something that isn’t needed any more? Maybe in the future all anyone will care about is the result, and will laugh at us ‘primitives’ that waste time making errors when they can get a perfect result every time? Go lookup "Shii"on youtube for a paraody of this. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/85 "2014-04-27T23:22:20Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > As to **Beowulf** ’s comments about virtual hobbies being “sad”, I think I see his point. Maybe it’s an age-thing. To me, age 52, a “hobby” is defined by something “solid”. Woodworking, model cars, model trains, model airplanes, archery, etc. There are tangible (literally, not metaphorically: touchable) results. I’d disagree with this to a point. For many years until my mid-20’s I was a keen plastic model aircraft builder. Entered and won a few comps., VP of the local club etc. I also loved flight-simulators and while I was studying learned some basic 3D modelling and then got my hands on a student licence for some good modelling software, taught myself (with the help of a few online resources), and started building aircraft for a WW1 combat flight sim. Building a complete, working, ‘flying’ model for a sim can be damn difficult. On top of the modelling itself (which for a WW1 plane could take weeks - all that rigging between the wings was a PITA), there is: [ul] [li]UV unwrapping (which translates the ‘surface’ of the 3D model into a flat image file so you can then add textures), [/li][li]using a program like GIMP or photoshop to ‘paint’ the textures, [/li][li]you also have to rig the moving surfaces so that they move or rotate in the in the right directions, [/li][li]create/measure the ‘hit boxes’ so that the sim knows if you’re, say, colliding with the ground, [/li][li]export (using a plug-in) to a format that the sim will understand, [/li][li]create a flight model,[/li][li]test, [/li][li]fix errors, [/li][li]retest etc. [/li][li]Once you have everything working you then need to make several models of lessening detail so the graphics engine can use them for rendering at different distances (cuts down on CPU overhead) etc. etc.[/li][/ul] During all that you need to have assembled your references for details, colour schemes (much like plastic modelling). Once thats all done you have a product you can release to the wider community at large to use. It’s a tremendously grattifying feeling to have created something that adds to the enjoyment of a sim for a lot of other people. I often worked with a small team to produce an aircraft - I did the modelling while one guy worked on the FM and another produced textures, so there was more of a ‘community’ while working than there was scale modelling which was very much a solo activity Once I’d built a plastic model and it had had its day in a comp. it tended to sit on a shelf gathering dust until it got accidently broken during cleaning or given away. I considered both scale modelling and 3D modelling equally valid hobbies when I was doing them. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/86 "2014-04-27T23:28:57Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > One thing that I have noticed that might take away from traditional hobbies is the presence of streaming video. > \ > Somebody has already done it and all you have to do is copy them. > Seems to take a lot of the fun out of hobbling. Not at all. If the goal of the hobbyist is in the figuring out of how something’s done, then maybe, but most are in it for the journey, and often the streaming video is the best way to get yourself over a conceptual hump, or not quite knowing how something’s done correctly. Let’s take photography as an example. Is it more fun and satisfying for someone to toil away taking thousands of shitty pictures because they don’t know how to set their camera correctly to account for some odd situation, or is it more fun and satisfying for them to learn how to set their camera right, and get down to the actual taking of pictures they like? I’m not convinced that simply knowing the tricks and tips ruins the hobby- there’s still skill involved, but streaming video drops the learning curve a bit and lets the hobbyist concentrate on other things. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/87 "2014-04-28T00:18:28Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > All the hobbies you mentioned have a pretty male slant. I think wifey is a little less willing to hold down the fort while daddy hits the links, especially if she’s had a long work week herself. This. With both spouses working outside the home at least part time, and sometimes both full-time, there just isn’t as much free time. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/88 "2014-04-28T02:33:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This. With both spouses working outside the home at least part time, and sometimes both full-time, there just isn’t as much free time. It goes the other way too. My wife wants to set up a room for quilting but we dont have the space. Also she cant seem to find the time to paint. The neighbor woman gave up her ceramics when she had kids. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/89 "2014-04-28T03:09:47Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Sure, sure. > But, typing PU0,0; PD 1000,1500 into a CNC machine is not the same as spending all afternoon using a file, and bluing to make a flat surface. Actually, I wasn’t talking about CNC machines. I was talking about 3D modelling software like Maya or Blender, which creates a purely virtual artifact. [Something like this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z_yg7ImbuY) (Which is, of course, done with a [Wacom tablet](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4NhA5NeJmEc/UIRzGwWd8XI/AAAAAAAAHM4/P9Fo67sERfc/s1600/wacom-to-cintiq.jpg), and not by typing in code with a keyboard.) I don’t see any intrinsic superiority in being able to do that with zBrush, versus doing it with clay. Well, except that having tried both, clay is _vastly_ easier to work with. ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/90 "2014-04-29T11:55:07Z")
Let me chime in on golf. I read that total rounds played per year US-wide is down something like 10% from a decade ago. A bit prior to that there had been a big upsurge when Tiger Woods came on the scene. His glory has somewhat faded and there has been no new rising star to jump-start newcomers’ interest. There are a number of stars or at least noticeable names, but no one dominates the scene like he did. ‘Slow Play’ is also partially responsible for the reduced interest, although that’s reminiscent of Yogi Berra’s complaint of a restaurant that “no one goes there anymore because its too crowded.” Other info; One year (maybe 2010?) I read that for the first time more golf courses closed than were built. I don’t know if that is still so. I was told (could be just talk) that the LPGA is having problems with tournament viewership due to the lack of top-notch US performers. Still, there remains a _lot_ of people playing and watching golf, and I can tell you that in some businesses it helps your networking if you play. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/91 "2014-04-29T12:19:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, I wasn’t talking about CNC machines. I was talking about 3D modelling software like Maya or Blender, which creates a purely virtual artifact. [Something like this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z_yg7ImbuY) (Which is, of course, done with a [Wacom tablet](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4NhA5NeJmEc/UIRzGwWd8XI/AAAAAAAAHM4/P9Fo67sERfc/s1600/wacom-to-cintiq.jpg), and not by typing in code with a keyboard.) I don’t see any intrinsic superiority in being able to do that with zBrush, versus doing it with clay. > > Well, except that having tried both, clay is _vastly_ easier to work with. I agree. The skill of 3D printing is the design. It’s analogous to sculpture (or maybe architecture), but because it comprises sitting at a desk operating a computer, it’s easy to dismiss it as somehow _artificial_, or not to appreciate the skills involved at all. They’re not quite the same kinds of skills though, I would argue - real-world sculpture often involves a certain degree of hand/eye coordination and a ‘feel’ for the material - particularly in non-homogenous media such as wood and stone. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/92 "2014-04-30T10:45:07Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And with online commerce, the “thrill of the find” that makes collecting fun doesn’t really happen. Spending a weekend digging around the local shops for just the right piece can be fun, and when you do finally find that missing piece in your collection, it’s a really good feeling. Collecting stamps used to involve all kinds of complicated setups between stamp collectors in various countries, and getting your hands on something really rare was an accomplishment. And while hobbies have always had guides, it used to be that most of the knowledge resided in the heads of the hobbiests. > > But today, you can just go online and find anything. It doesn’t take a lot of knowledge or persistance, and what you have in your collection is primarily a function of how much money you feel like dumping in to it. The other problem in a lot of hobbies is the prices for stuff have gone up a lot because of the internet - _everyone_ thinks their widget is some ultra-rare collectible and when you get enough people flogging their “ultra-rare” collectibles online you end up with the average seller saying “Hey, I’ve got one of those! It must be worth bucketloads too!” and suddenly relatively common things end up costing a fortune because that’s what they’re worth now. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/93 "2014-04-30T14:31:46Z")
I doubt that the “traditional” hobbies of which you speak were popular fifty years prior to their heydays. The book I’m reading identifies geology as somewhat of a “gentleman’s” hobby for the well-off; some 100-150 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/94 "2014-04-30T14:36:48Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The other problem in a lot of hobbies is the prices for stuff have gone up a lot because of the internet - _everyone_ thinks their widget is some ultra-rare collectible and when you get enough people flogging their “ultra-rare” collectibles online you end up with the average seller saying “Hey, I’ve got one of those! It must be worth bucketloads too!” and suddenly relatively common things end up costing a fortune because that’s what they’re worth now. I would think that the internet would drive the prices of stuff _down_ big time because instead of being stuck dealing with the only guy you know in your county who has some rare coin/rock/stamp/etc you can look at what _everyone_ is selling it for. But the only problem I see with that is that when you get savvy people who know what things are worth, they will be buying it cheap and reselling it, which is what I assume a lot of people do on ebay as a supplementary income. While some hobbies can hit the sweet spot of being both inexpensive and a small investment in time, often you have to be at least somewhat established to get to that point. Camping is ‘cheap’ and doesn’t take long (you can camp somewhere over the weekend, for example). But you still have to get the equipment, figure out where to go, spend trial and error to find out what the most cost and time-effective methods are worth it for you. For some potential hobbyists, that start up opportunity cost is more prohibitive than you might think. When you’ve been doing something for years its easy to think about how fun, inexpensive, and time efficient it is. One of my friends likes motorcycles. He likes riding, but also collecting and fixing them. He funds it by buying broken motorcycles cheap, fixing them up, and selling them for a ‘profit’. At his peak, he had a garage with 2 or 3 motorcycles sitting around, along with a current ‘project’. While waiting for a buyer on one of the fixed motorcycles, he’ll ride it around for fun (I’m assuming registration and insurance isn’t a huge issue, or he’s simply driving unregistered/insured motorcycles around :eek: ). So he basically gets to play with motorcycles for ‘free’. But to do that, he had to have a garage to store them, a whole bunch of tools to fix them up, the time and knowlege to get to the point where he could easily troubleshoot non working bikes and know what was a good deal. All the money he makes profiting from the bikes goes back into his hobby for more parts/tools/gas/etc. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/95 "2014-04-30T15:16:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t see any particular reason why, say, 3D modeling couldn’t be considered a form of craftsmanship. A computer is as much of a tool as a handsaw. And I’m not sure how you think computer graphics are made, if you think they don’t require manual input. > [@beowulff](#): > > Sure, sure. > But, typing PU0,0; PD 1000,1500 into a CNC machine is not the same as spending all afternoon using a file, and bluing to make a flat surface. I’m with **beowulff** here. To make an analogous comparison: I play electric guitar in a rock band, and I also compose electronic music on my laptop. Yes, the end result of both pursuits is euphonious (I hope!) sound, and yes, I primarily use my hands to make both. But the process of clicking, dragging, and typing could not be much more different from the process of hitting strings, varying volume and timbre with the force of my picking, and applying vibrato using my wrist and finger muscles. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/96 "2014-04-30T18:23:17Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I’m with **beowulff** here. To make an analogous comparison: I play electric guitar in a rock band, and I also compose electronic music on my laptop. Yes, the end result of both pursuits is euphonious (I hope!) sound, and yes, I primarily use my hands to make both. But the process of clicking, dragging, and typing could not be much more different from the process of hitting strings, varying volume and timbre with the force of my picking, and applying vibrato using my wrist and finger muscles. Yes, and the process of using a hammer and chisel to carve a block of marble couldn’t be more different from the process of using a brush and palette to paint a canvas, but people don’t generally try to privilege one art above the other purely on those terms. Also, the process of creating art on a computer is, in fact, very similar to the process of creating art on a piece of paper. Digital art tools have been deliberately designed to mimic physical tools as much as possible, to a large (from my admittedly amateur POV) degree of success. The skills used to draw in real-life carry over almost completely intact to an art tablet, to the extent that trying to create a distinction between art created on a computer and art created on paper is very much like trying to create a distinction between books written in a word processor and books written on a typewriter. 3D art is admittedly pretty dissimilar to sculpting physical materials, although it’s still largely a matter of fine motor control and technique. 3D modellers aren’t writing code to create those images, they’re using a Wacom tablet and pen to do most of the manipulation. It is, absolutely, a physical skill, to the exact same degree as any process of creating art in a traditional medium is a physical skill. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/97 "2014-04-30T18:37:34Z")
Speaking for myself, I never said that one form was “better” than the other. My original statement was that is was sad that the hobby of model railroad building was being replaced with virtual railroad construction. That’s all. Since this is IMHO, I’ll just say that it’s my opinion that it’s very sad that some kids will never have the experience of holding a beautifully crafted miniature train engine. Smelling the oil and the overheated solenoids. Having to reach inside the styrofoam tunnel to retrieve a train that has derailed. Putting obstacles on the tracks to see how much the train can take before it can’t move. Watching the cat swat the train as it passes. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/98 "2014-04-30T18:58:21Z")
Maybe my family’s odd, but I don’t think it’s true at all that women don’t have hobbies. [ul] [li]One grandmother did ceramics- pouring, painting, firing, etc…[/li][li]Other grandmother is a serious gardener and a painter.[/li][li]Aunt was a painter, did all sorts of crafts and interior decorating, and was a very good antique collector/picker.[/li][li]Mom is a gardener[/li][li]Mother-in-Law is a gardener and sews.[/li][li]My wife is a paper crafter (makes cards and things like that primarily), and is a fairly skilled metalsmith/jeweler.[/li][/ul] With the exception of my wife’s metalsmithing, their hobbies are traditionally female activities, but they put as much effort into them and derive as much relaxation and peace from them as any man does from model railroading or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/99 "2014-04-30T21:27:21Z")
> [@GrizzRich](#): > > The book I’m reading identifies geology as somewhat of a “gentleman’s” hobby for the well-off; some 100-150 years ago. In other words, before television was invented, people dug rocks out of the ground for fun. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048/100 "2014-04-30T22:14:18Z")
I think it’s blindingly obvious that the “women have no hobbies” crowd are actually spending all their time at male-centric activities and know no women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-have-all-the-hobbyists-gone/687048.md?page=6)