# Where is a good place to live north-ish of San Francisco? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086 "2014-06-18T18:41:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/1 "2014-06-18T18:41:42Z")
It looks like I’m going to get a job offer in Novato, twenty miles or so north of San Francisco. The job seems great, but Novato was not my kind of place, and I don’t think my wife will like it at all. I love San Francisco and would like to live in the city, but it’s crazy expensive, so I was wondering if we could find a neighborhood that’s a little more manageable. I’ve poked around Zillow and Craigslist a bit, and Mill valley and Sausalito are even more expensive than the city, and the rest of the area seems pretty suburban. My wife lived most of her life in Romania and Germany and finds American suburbs desolate and lonely. I lived most of my life in Los Angeles, and I tend to like the neighborhoods like Venice, Silverlake, West Hollywood, places that many people find weird and seedy. I’m 46, and we have a three year old, so it’s not like we need a place with a bunch of night life. I think we just like to be in areas where people are out and about, even if we don’t get out and about that often. San Francisco is basically the perfect city for us, and there’s a reasonably good chance we’ll just suck up the cost and live there (I’d also have to give up my woodshop, which is a bummer and a bigger factor for me than the cost), but I thought it might be worth seeing if anyone knew of an area that’s somewhat walkable and ‘lively’ in the area where we could maybe afford a small house instead of a hipster shoebox in North Beach. ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/2 "2014-06-18T18:53:57Z")
Sebastopol is cool. Not sure what the driving time would be though. > **[Sebastopol, California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastopol,_California)** > > Sebastopol (/sɪˈbæstəpoʊl, -puːl/ sib-AST-ə-pohl, -⁠pool) is a city in Sonoma County, in California with a recorded population of 7,521, per the 2020 U.S. Census. > Sebastopol was once primarily a plum and apple-growing region. Today, wine grapes are the predominant agriculture crop, and nearly all lands once used for orchards are now vineyards. The creation of The Barlow, a $23.5 million strip mall on a floodplain at the edge of town, converting old agriculture warehouses into a trendy marketpl... ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/3 "2014-06-18T19:10:17Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > …and I tend to like the neighborhoods like Venice, Silverlake, West Hollywood, places that many people find weird and seedy. Have you considered Berkeley? (Note: I have no idea what it costs to live there). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/4 "2014-06-18T19:15:13Z")
Novato is nice. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/5 "2014-06-18T19:23:12Z")
I would consider Pinole. Smallish town right on the bay, maybe 25 minutes from San Francisco. Not cheap, but much cheaper than SF. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/6 "2014-06-18T19:29:45Z")
> [@bricker](#): > > novato is nice. khaaaannnnn!! ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/7 "2014-06-18T19:32:55Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > khaaaannnnn!! ??? ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/8 "2014-06-18T19:52:17Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > ??? In the OP I specifically said we don’t want to live in Novato, so I assumed he didn’t pay much attention, or was just being coy. Also, Bricker just kind of seems like the khan of the board (Montalban, not Cumberbatch). ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/9 "2014-06-18T20:00:46Z")
Tough call. The entire North Bay is pretty damn suburban, and the bulk of the suburbia is the blandest post-1960s burbs. You might find what you’re looking for near the older downtown areas that the burbs grew up around -San Rafael, Petaluma, maybe Santa Rosa. And I’ll second looking at Berkeley - a commute across the Richmond-San Rafael bridge shouldn’t be too horrible. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/10 "2014-06-18T20:07:29Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > In the OP I specifically said we don’t want to live in Novato, so I assumed he didn’t pay much attention, or was just being coy. Also, Bricker just kind of seems like the khan of the board (Montalban, not Cumberbatch). Had to Google that. I’m pretty sure I never had a Trekkie card to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/11 "2014-06-18T21:33:26Z")
Santa Rosa has the Russian River Brewing Company, which is supposed to be awesome. I’m not sure the rest of Santa Rosa would be more your kind of place than Novato, and it’s not exactly close. With San Francisco and Sausalito eliminated, that pretty much just leaves the East Bay, and a schlep across the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. There are lots of places to choose from there though. I guess Vallejo would also be possible. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/12 "2014-06-18T21:45:26Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Tough call. The entire North Bay is pretty damn suburban, and the bulk of the suburbia is the blandest post-1960s burbs. You might find what you’re looking for near the older downtown areas that the burbs grew up around -San Rafael, Petaluma, maybe Santa Rosa. And I’ll second looking at Berkeley - a commute across the Richmond-San Rafael bridge shouldn’t be too horrible. Another shout-out for Petaluma - nice town. Santa Rosa is bigger and has a lot more suburbs, but not bad, either. I am not sure what is wrong with Novato. Whatever you do, try not to add a bridge to your commute. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/13 "2014-06-18T22:09:10Z")
Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn’t really considered Berkeley. For some reason I thought it was south of Oakland. > [@Twoflower](#): > > Tough call. The entire North Bay is pretty damn suburban, and the bulk of the suburbia is the blandest post-1960s burbs. This was my impression from the day I spent there and the time I’ve spent looking around online. I’ll probably keep looking just because it’s close to work, and the rents seem pretty reasonable north of Novato, but at least I know what to expect. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/14 "2014-06-18T22:12:27Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I am not sure what is wrong with Novato. Nothing’s wrong with it. We just like to be able to walk to things, and it doesn’t seem like that kind of place. > [@snowthx](#): > > Whatever you do, try not to add a bridge to your commute. What if we ended up in the city and I was driving north in the mornings over the Golden Gate? I kind of assumed it would be the opposite way of traffic and not too terrible, but I might be naive about that. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/15 "2014-06-18T22:36:55Z")
Ugh! If I was moving for a job in Novato, I wouldn’t be looking for city living, I’d find one of the cute little towns in Marin or Sonoma county and get a little hobby farm! I agree, if you don’t like suburbs, there’s not much else around. I like the north bay town of Martinez, personally. It has a small town feel and great schools. And beavers! A family of wild beavers live in Alhambra Creek by the Amtrak station, and are amenable to visitors. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/16 "2014-06-18T23:45:18Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > Nothing’s wrong with it. We just like to be able to walk to things, and it doesn’t seem like that kind of place. > > What if we ended up in the city and I was driving north in the mornings over the Golden Gate? I kind of assumed it would be the opposite way of traffic and not too terrible, but I might be naive about that. Yeah, I think you are right about the reverse commute on the GGB, but dont forget about the additional cost in bridge tolls. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/17 "2014-06-18T23:59:36Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Ugh! If I was moving for a job in Novato, I wouldn’t be looking for city living, I’d find one of the cute little towns in Marin or Sonoma county and get a little hobby farm! I agree, if you don’t like suburbs, there’s not much else around. > > I like the north bay town of Martinez, personally. It has a small town feel and great schools. And beavers! A family of wild beavers live in Alhambra Creek by the Amtrak station, and are amenable to visitors. I thought Martinez was Spanish for “land of many oil refineries”. But all I know is what you see from the bridge. As for the OP, I’d second Petaluma and maybe Napa/Sonoma if you’re a bit more adventurish. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/18 "2014-06-19T00:01:22Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Yeah, I think you are right about the reverse commute on the GGB, but dont forget about the additional cost in bridge tolls. Why is there an additional cost? Whether you go round trip north to south or south to north, the cost is the same. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/19 "2014-06-19T00:08:33Z")
This sounds like downtown Berkeley to me, although the drive would be a bit of a bear (28 miles, fighting traffic for some of that stretch). Rent is significantly cheaper than SF but also more expensive than much of the bay area. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086/20 "2014-06-19T00:18:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought Martinez was Spanish for “land of many oil refineries”. But all I know is what you see from the bridge. > > As for the OP, I’d second Petaluma and maybe Napa/Sonoma if you’re a bit more adventurish. Martinez is actually a town with some character, but I can’t imagine commenting to Novato from there. Vallejo would be commutable, but you don’t want to go there. Trust me, I grew up there. Napa or Sonoma was my other thought – enjoy the character of living in wine country, and either should be an acceptable commute to Novato. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-a-good-place-to-live-north-ish-of-san-francisco/691086.md?page=2)