# Where is all the stolen Iraqi oil ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471 "2016-08-30T11:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/1 "2016-08-30T11:27:20Z")
Inspired by the \*\*boffking \*\*thread on ending American Imperialism in which \*\*boffking \*\*wrote “Did you forget that we overthrew Saddam, **stole Iraqi oil** ” So I am asking the question where did all that stolen oil go? Oil is bulky and requires a lot of expense to transport. All of that has to be well documented. Did that oil go directly from Iraq to the USA and into our Strategic Oil Reserve ? Or did the US take oil and sell it on the market and deposit the money in the US treasury and not the Iraq treasury ? Seems to me this would be well known. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/2 "2016-08-30T11:44:58Z")
As I said in that thread, it wasn’t about stealing the oil. It was about ensuring that oil would continue to be traded in dollars. The dollar hegemony is the basis on which dollars can just keep on being created out of nothing. The consequences of this system falling apart would be absolutely devastating to the US. Which is why its continuance is guaranteed by absolute ruthlessness. Independant of who might be president at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/3 "2016-08-30T12:18:18Z")
[delete] ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/4 "2016-08-30T12:27:02Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > As I said in that thread, it wasn’t about stealing the oil. It was about ensuring that oil would continue to be traded in dollars. > The dollar hegemony is the basis on which dollars can just keep on being created out of nothing. > > The consequences of this system falling apart would be absolutely devastating to the US. Which is why its continuance is guaranteed by absolute ruthlessness. Independant of who might be president at the moment. Indeed. The whole house of cards apocalyptically collapses if the US economy is called to account for anywhere near its actual value. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/5 "2016-08-30T12:38:07Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > As I said in that thread, it wasn’t about stealing the oil. It was about ensuring that oil would continue to be traded in dollars. > The dollar hegemony is the basis on which dollars can just keep on being created out of nothing. > > The consequences of this system falling apart would be absolutely devastating to the US. Which is why its continuance is guaranteed by absolute ruthlessness. Independant of who might be president at the moment. Please, please, please cite these points you’re making: 1. That the war was about making sure oil is traded in dollars 2. That dollars cannot be created out of thin air if oil is traded in, say, euros 3. That dollars are created out of thin air 4. That oil being traded in, say, euros would cause massive damage to the US I can’t wait to see what sort of Nobel Prize-winning economists said those things. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/6 "2016-08-30T13:05:44Z")
That’s exactly how the game works; every nation has to hold $US billions they can’t use. The USA knows this and, unlike every other nation, prints money it spends with total financial impunity. This is not news, well not for several decades. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/7 "2016-08-30T13:46:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Please, please, please cite these points you’re making: > > 1. That the war was about making sure oil is traded in dollars > 2. That dollars cannot be created out of thin air if oil is traded in, say, euros > 3. That dollars are created out of thin air > 4. That oil being traded in, say, euros would cause massive damage to the US > I can’t wait to see what sort of Nobel Prize-winning economists said those things. No need for a Nobel laureate, any standard high school economic primer will do. 1. Whatever the causes/justifications for the Iraq war is outside my interest at this time. 2. If you need to repay a debt denominated in say Euros, you can’t use USD. You need to buy Euros using whatever form of exchange e.g. USD, Yen, Yuan, gold etc. they will accept at an agreed exchange rate. 3. US Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. Because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are “backed” by the goods and services in the US economy. If the US government wanted to inject money into the US economy they can do so. The main risk of this strategy is inflation. 4. Massive damage is misleading. It would cause a significant disruption. In the short term it would be harmful as the US would need to earn (rather than print) the money it needed to buy non-USD goods. But assuming the US economy adjusts to the new paradigm it may actually be beneficial. For example, the need for most of the world to buy USD to pay for USD denominated goods/services increases the demand for USD, hence the price of USD i.e. the exchange rate. This makes it cheaper for the US to import goods and more expensive to export US goods. This drives the US’s current balance of payments problem. On the other hand, were the US to print currency those holding goods denominated in other currencies could take the view that the increased supply of USD meant the buying power of those notes was less and hence want more for the same amount of EURO denominated goods. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/8 "2016-08-30T13:54:04Z")
Oil trading is denominated in USD, not because of US imperialism but because that’s how the market evolved over decades. When China buys oil from Venezuela, the price is determined on a USD basis, that doesn’t mean that China pays Venezuela in USD, it means only that is how the price is set. China can pay in whichever currency Venezuela wishes, and will buy the equivalent of that currency to do so. The claim that because oil is traded in USD, that the US can increase its money supply out of thin air is stupid and not based in any economic theories. Again it’s a pricing mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/9 "2016-08-30T14:24:38Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Indeed. The whole house of cards apocalyptically collapses if the US economy is called to account for anywhere near its actual value. Cites, please. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/10 "2016-08-30T14:31:39Z")
Same place we hid all that stolen Afghan oil. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/11 "2016-08-30T14:54:20Z")
It’s interesting that of all Iraqi oil exported, the US only receives about 7% of it. We sure aren’t very good oil thieves. [![](https://www.eia.gov/international/content/analysis/countries_long/Iraq/images/crude_oil_exports_destination.png) ](https://www.eia.gov/international/content/analysis/countries_long/Iraq/images/crude_oil_exports_destination.png) Main site: > **[International - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)](https://www.eia.gov/international/analysis/country/IRQ)** > > Energy Information Administration - EIA - Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/12 "2016-08-30T15:03:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Cites, please. It’s basic world economics 101 - google it, educate yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/13 "2016-08-30T15:15:43Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s basic world economics 101 - google it, educate yourself. Sounds more like conspiracy theory 101. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/14 "2016-08-30T15:27:41Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s basic world economics 101 - google it, educate yourself. You’ve been here a little over a year, so you may not know how it works on the Dope. You make the assertions, you bring the cites. “Google it” and “educate yourself” may work on Yahoo or whatever newspaper comment section you usually hang out in, but here you need to back up what you say. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/15 "2016-08-30T15:39:35Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The USA knows this and, unlike every other nation, prints money it spends with total financial impunity. Tell that to that bastion of communism, Venezuela. Sitting on the largest reserves of oil in the world, they don’t even have the money to print more money (not that they weren’t printing like mad until recently, that’s how they got 720% inflation). [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/04/venezuela-is-becoming-a-failed-state/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/04/venezuela-is-becoming-a-failed-state/) > [@](#): > > But that didn’t stop the government from going on a spending spree. How big of one? Well, even triple-digit oil prices weren’t enough to balance its books. So it got money from the one place it could: the printing press. And it has had to get a lot more now that oil prices have fallen so far the past two years. The result, as you might expect, of printing all these bolivars is that the bolivar has lost almost all its value against the dollar — and no, that’s not hyperbole. Since the start of 2012, the bolivar has, according to black market rates, fallen 99.1 percent against the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/16 "2016-08-30T19:35:43Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s basic world economics 101 - google it, educate yourself. Things that are supposedly easy to cite, but are never cited, are invariably bullshit as opposed to common sense. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/17 "2016-08-30T22:37:36Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > When China buys oil from Venezuela, the price is determined on a USD basis, that doesn’t mean that China pays Venezuela in USD. Oh, but yes it does. The buyer (China) pays the vendor (Venezuela) in USD for USD denominated goods. China has plenty of USD, so they just transfer USD from their reserves built up from all those US buyers of their goods & services denominated in USD. But if they didn’t have sufficient USD then they would need to exchange whatever currency/money they have for USD, i.e. buy USD. If Venezuela would accept RMB for their oil then oil is being priced/traded in RMB. But Venezuela don’t want RMB because all they can buy with RMB are Chinese RMB denominated goods. They want USD. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/18 "2016-08-30T22:45:20Z")
And all without the US invading Venezuela. FWIW, Iraq is OPEC, is it not? Care to hazard a guess as to the currency OPEC trades under? Saddam Hussein tried trading under the Euro, never took off. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/19 "2016-08-30T23:04:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Things that are supposedly easy to cite, but are never cited, are invariably bullshit as opposed to common sense. Leaving aside the more hyperbolic assertions, how about a quote from former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. He’s a man whom I think knows his onions in these matters. At the time of the last [US had a debt crisis S&P downgraded America’s credit rating](http://www.cnbc.com/id/44051683)… > [@](#): > > “The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default” said Greenspan on NBC’s Meet the Press This is not to say there aren’t adverse, even dire consequences of that action if continued. Which is why any respectable central banker who is independent from the government is going to take action which would threaten the USD’s reserve currency status. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471/20 "2016-08-30T23:19:02Z")
When did I ask for a cite about US debt service? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-all-the-stolen-iraqi-oil/764471.md?page=2)