# Where is Oklahoma? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735 "2007-09-27T21:27:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/81 "2007-09-28T17:55:27Z")
I heard a term new to me recently: TOLA (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana) ---
**Author:** ![J\_Cubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@J\_Cubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J_Cubed)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/82 "2007-09-28T18:05:34Z")
Oklahoma is Texas’s hat. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/83 "2007-09-28T20:47:49Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Perhaps he plains don’t start big time until Kansas, but they begin in my [fair state.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/cropmap/arkansas/maps/AReco3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/cropmap/arkansas/maps/AReco3.html&h=291&w=306&sz=10&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=2Befvnj57KjQ-M:&tbnh=111&tbnw=117&prev=/images%3Fq%3Darkansas%2Bplains%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN) [/QUOTE] I think you’ll find the the Arkansas plain is not contiguous with and not the same as the [Great Plains.](http://www.plainsfolk.com/map.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/84 "2007-09-28T20:58:04Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I knew St Louis was the starting place for Westward exploration, Lewis & Clarke for example. Does Kansas City gets the moniker from the cattle business and shipping Eastward by rail? [/QUOTE] I don’t think those are the criteria involved. It’s more a matter of geography, and current notions of an Eastern city vs. a Western city. This may shed some light on it (from [here):](http://www.city-data.com/forum/missouri/124423-battle-missouri.html) "Kansas City is often called the ‘eastern-most Western city’ and St Louis the ‘western-most eastern city’ and I think that description is apt. St Louis is older, has more history, was once the third largest city in the country back in the late 1800’s, and was once so world-reknown that they hosted the 1904Worlds Fair there. But the city peaked a long time ago and due to sprawl, crime, white flight, traffic, and bad geography the area is at best stagnant. The inner core is rotting (and that includes St Louis county) because many people keep moving out to St Charles county… Kansas City proper is larger in size, both in area and in population. It is sprawled out over 3 counties and contains over 300 square miles. Because of this, much of KC proper is suburban in nature, and there is still a lot of open space within the city limits. St Louis is a walled-in city surrounded by suburbs, and contains roughly 65 square miles." ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/85 "2007-09-28T21:07:50Z")
Another relevant quote from the discussion cited in post # 84: “Overall, STL seemed to be a MUCH MORE eastern flavored big city compared with KC. The KC metro is just like an overgrown cow town on the Great Plains.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/86 "2007-09-28T21:10:31Z")
[QUOTE=GargoyleWB] My regional categories…but I’m kind of isolated up here in the PNW from the rest of the country’s goings-on, so this may not be agreaable to everyone that may live in the other states: Wet (OR, WA) Beach (CA) Desert (AZ, NM, UT) Corn (OK, KS, OH, IA) Fargo (Dakotas, Mich, Minn, Wisc) Huck Finn (FL, Miss, Misso, Alabama, LA) Syrup (New England states) New York (NY, Illinois, NJ, Maryland, Virginia, NC) [/QUOTE] IMO Florida is too segmented to belong to any one section – the I-4 corridor and southwest is generic suburbia/retirement, Miami is neo-Cuba, and everything else is fairly Southern. Illinois I lump in more with the Corn Belt, except Chicago which I lump in with the Rust Belt (upstate PA, Western NY, Ohio, lower MI.) But I agree with you on Virginia, Maryland, and NJ (although call it “east coast” to be more politically correct.) ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/87 "2007-09-28T21:26:07Z")
Lower 48 Or Outside ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/88 "2007-09-28T21:26:40Z")
It’s definitely not the Midwest, and definitely not the South, and definitely not the Southwest. There’s nothing left but “Midsouth” or “Midsouthwest.” ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/89 "2007-09-28T21:55:13Z")
This is all from memory, but about a year ago I heard a professor being interviewed on the radio about some regional studies he had done. He talked about what was considered “the south” in the United States, and said one of the studies went around to different states and asked people if they thought their state was in the south or not. I think that he said something like 98% of the people in Alabama and Mississippi felt they lived in the south (and I have no idea where the other 2% thought they were), and then went on to say that, although it might “come as a surprise to people around here” (he was on a North Carolina radio station), the study found that something like 30% of Oklahomans said their state was in the south. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/90 "2007-09-28T22:36:56Z")
Why is it always so windy in Oklahoma? Kansas sucks, Texas blows. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/91 "2007-09-28T22:58:50Z")
Bah. Both Texas and Oklahoma are comprised of two groups: Southerners and self-loathing Southerners (the ones who deny they’re Southern). There’s just no denying the demographics or the cultural continuum. Both states were settled primarily by Southerners, and retain obvious aspects of Southern culture. The Okies transported that culture all the way out to the Bakersfield area of California during the Depression, which is why we now have the “Bakersfield sound” - the decidedly Southern-feeling country music that came out of that area. (Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, _et al._) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/92 "2007-09-28T23:00:24Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] Fly around out there is small plane and you will see what I’m talking about. [/QUOTE] Hell Gus, fly over it in a big plane, you can see more of it from 39,000 feet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/93 "2007-09-29T00:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] I heard a term new to me recently: TOLA (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana) [/QUOTE] I grew up in the ARKLATEX which was a commonly used term to describe the Northern Louisiana-Southern Arkansas-and East Texas region that we lived in. Parts of the Oklahoma border met the region but they were never included for some reason. Our TV and radio stations even identified themselves as ARKLATEX stations but they would often give weather alerts for the nearest parts of Oklahoma. Maybe it was just for entertainment because those people were constantly getting nailed by tornadoes it seemed. We did sometimes too but at least it made us feel better in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/94 "2007-09-29T00:59:15Z")
A true No-Man’s Land. My grandmother lived in northwestern Arkansas, and so once or twice a year, we (and then often I alone when I grew up), trekked the entire length of the the state on I-40 to get there from West Texas. I’ve always thought that while Texas sucked, I’d just flat out slit my wrists if I had to live in Oklahoma. I’ve known folks who love the place, though. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/95 "2007-09-29T01:03:48Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] And West Texas is most definitely Southwest. [/QUOTE] I grew up in West Texas, and it was never considered Southwest then. That seems to be a recent change, no doubt to try to get in on the cachet of the truly beautiful Southwest of Arizona and New Mexico. I’ve found West Texas, even around El Paso, to be just desolate waste. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/96 "2007-09-29T03:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > **T\_Square** : The Midwest is states up by the Great Lakes. Why can’t the Midwest be “states down by the…” whatever? There is no _up_ nor _down_ in “mid” nor “west.” > [@](#): > > **panache45** : There’s nothing left but “Midsouth” or “Midsouthwest.” You can mark off “Midsouth.” The Midsouth Fair is held in Memphis and has been since spit began. That upper delta region is referred to as the Midsouth as opposed to the Deep South. That leaves one to wonder where the Upper South went to. Maybe it used to be Virginia and (some say) Maryland. Now those appear to be part of the “New York Region” along with North Carolina. Instead of “Midsouthwest,” how about Midwest-South? Or even Lower Midwest-South to please **T\_Square.**. Just give us back North Carolina, **GargoyleWB** Do not take the Smokey Mountains to the Bronx and Staten Island too. I know that you are trying to lay claim to Appalachian State University…I can see your wicked Yankee fingers trying to grease your way into Boone as I write. But beware of Grandfather Mountain. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Miscue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Miscue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miscue)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/97 "2007-09-29T15:35:30Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t know about that. It’s the place the Southern Indian tribes were sent, there was a large migration there from the Southern states, you can hear Southern accents there, they’re football-crazy, and you can get grits for breakfast and barbecue for dinner. Seems pretty southern to me. [/QUOTE] I can get grits for breakfast in Ft. Lauderdale, too, but… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/98 "2007-09-29T22:27:20Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] I met a veterinarian from Oklahoma once and I called her an Okie. She was offended. She told me it was a derogatory term. Then again, she was a bitch in general. [/QUOTE] ‘Okie’ is a very derogatory term for a veterinarian. She shoulda slapped you! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/99 "2007-09-29T23:00:24Z")
[QUOTE=Miscue] I can get grits for breakfast in Ft. Lauderdale, too, but… 🙂 [/QUOTE] But do they put sugar on them? ---
**Author:** ![Miscue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Miscue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miscue)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735/100 "2007-09-29T23:23:16Z")
Good question…I’m thinking that if they did it would tear a rip in the fabric of reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-oklahoma/420735.md?page=6)