# Where is the African community doing best? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363 "2012-03-10T03:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/1 "2012-03-10T03:53:54Z")
In the interest of full disclosure, this is for a paper I’m working on. I’m not asking for you to do my homework, though; just looking for ideas. We all know that blacks in the US lag behind whites and other minorities in terms of median income, home ownership, education, and numerous other metrics. I don’t want to rehash why; there are plenty of other threads for that. What I’m looking for is what other countries (or US communities) have done the best job of integrating their black communities; not just where there is the least subjective racism, but where median income, quality of life and so on in the black community most closely mirrors that of other groups. Somebody suggested Canada, and I’m looking into that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/2 "2012-03-10T04:03:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In the interest of full disclosure, this is for a paper I’m working on. I’m not asking for you to do my homework, though; just looking for ideas. > > We all know that blacks in the US lag behind whites and other minorities in terms of median income, home ownership, education, and numerous other metrics. I don’t want to rehash why; there are plenty of other threads for that. > > What I’m looking for is what other countries (or US communities) have done the best job of integrating their black communities; not just where there is the least subjective racism, but where median income, quality of life and so on in the black community most closely mirrors that of other groups. > > Somebody suggested Canada, and I’m looking into that. From a relative standpoint, they’re doing very well in the U.S. Armed Forces. There was an article in the NY Times half a dozen years ago or so that pointed out that the racial disparity in school performance was non-existent in the military. I think I can find it in my files if you really need it. And I seem to recall reading and/or seeing a piece on television pointing to Atlanta as a place that had a very large middle- and upper-middle-class black population. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/3 "2012-03-10T04:15:38Z")
Look at African immigrants in the US. Twenty-eight percent of Nigerian-Americans have graduate degrees, far above almost all other groups. Ethiopians also tend to do well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/4 "2012-03-10T04:19:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From a relative standpoint, they’re doing very well in the U.S. Armed Forces. There was an article in the NY Times half a dozen years ago or so that pointed out that the racial disparity in school performance was non-existent in the military. I think I can find it in my files if you really need it. > > And I seem to recall reading and/or seeing a piece on television pointing to Atlanta as a place that had a very large middle- and upper-middle-class black population. That’s a pretty brilliant suggestion. I hadn’t thought of looking at things like the military, but it makes perfect sense; the US military was integrated well before civilian society. The professor is a retired JAG, too, so I’ll get brownie points. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/5 "2012-03-10T04:25:20Z")
I don’t even think an issue exists in Canada. Blacks have never been marginalized here. There has never been slavery and black immigrants who came here willingly completely integrated into their communities. I’m not saying racism is non-existent, but from a societal perspective there is really no disparity as one would encounter in the US south, for example. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/6 "2012-03-10T04:25:24Z")
To quote [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_outcomes_in_the_United_States_by_race_and_other_classifications): > [@](#): > > Educational attainment rates change when it comes to comparing the same races against immigrants or foreign born students. Black African and Caribbean immigrant groups to the U.S report having higher level of education then any other group.[10] **Of all foreign-born U.S. residents, foreign born Africans (those who came from the African continent) had the highest level of educational attainment than any other group in the United States across race and ethnicity.**[11][12] They tend to be highly educated and be fluent in English. This trend was first reported in the 1990s’ by the Journal of blacks in Higher Education and still continues today. [13][14] According to the U.S census, “43.8 percent of African immigrants had achieved a college degree, compared with 42.5 of Asian-Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole.”[15] The educational attainment amount varies by group. According to the U.S. Census, out of the African populations, Nigerians reported to having the highest level of education in the U.S Nigerian immigrants have the highest levels of education in this city and the nation, surpassing whites and Asians.[16]. Africans are doing very well in the US. if you want to focus on a particular geographic area or community, I suggest looking at DC’s Ethiopian community. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/7 "2012-03-10T04:28:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a pretty brilliant suggestion. I hadn’t thought of looking at things like the military, but it makes perfect sense; the US military was integrated well before civilian society. The professor is a retired JAG, too, so I’ll get brownie points. I found it particularly interesting from the education standpoint, which is what I was looking at. One of the largest determinants of school performance is parental involvement. In the civilian world, due to what has happened to the black family and the degree to which the group overlaps with poverty, the degree of parental involvement the kids get is horrifically low. But in the military, according to the article, if Johnny is falling behind or acting up and a note is sent home with him, if Johnny’s parents don’t deal with it in a timely fashion, the note is also sent to Johnny’s parent’s commanding officer, who, in either fact or essence, orders the parent to deal with it. It does appear that the military is the place that comes closest to a colorblind society. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/8 "2012-03-10T04:32:13Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Look at African immigrants in the US. Twenty-eight percent of Nigerian-Americans have graduate degrees, far above almost all other groups. Ethiopians also tend to do well. I think you’ll found that there are many countries that have people here that are doing very well. The fact is, most people who emigrate here legally do very well. I was taking the OP’s question to go more to American Blacks, generally. Is that the case, RTATB? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/9 "2012-03-10T05:17:13Z")
Yes. The paper I’m writing is specifically about the African diaspora- ie., communities of people forced to leave Africa (whether as slaves or otherwise). ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/10 "2012-03-10T17:35:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From a relative standpoint, they’re doing very well in the U.S. Armed Forces. There was an article in the NY Times half a dozen years ago or so that pointed out that the racial disparity in school performance was non-existent in the military. I think I can find it in my files if you really need it. > > And I seem to recall reading and/or seeing a piece on television pointing to Atlanta as a place that had a very large middle- and upper-middle-class black population. What does “racial disparity in school performance was non-existent in the military” actually mean? There certainly is a large disparity in the military when you compared the percentages of blacks as a total of enlisted versus percentage of officers that are black. The former is higher than the percentage of blacks in the population while the latter is quite a bit lower. > [@](#): > > According to the report, “the demographic composition of the officer corps is far from representative of the American population and … officers are much less demographically diverse than the enlisted troops they lead.” The Military Leadership Diversity Commission also found that “with some exceptions, racial and ethnic minorities and women are underrepresented among senor noncommissioned officers”. (Read the [full report](http://mldc.whs.mil/download/documents/Final%20Report/MLDC_Final_Report.pdf).) > > The report says that while non-Hispanic whites make up 66 percent of the U.S. population, they comprise 77 percent of active duty officers. Similarly, blacks account for 12 percent of the U.S population, but represent just 8 percent of active duty officers. When it comes to Hispanic Americans, which make up 15 percent of the U.S. population, they number only 5 percent of the officer corps. [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/03/military-report.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/03/military-report.html) Graph: [http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2011/03/10/chart1\_slideshow.jpg](http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2011/03/10/chart1_slideshow.jpg) Granted, you said it’s relative so that could be an improvement depending how you compare to the non-military. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/11 "2012-03-10T17:42:29Z")
I don’t understand what you are trying to get to here. The groups that have been mentioned - US military, legal immigrants from Africa to Canada and the US, are self selecting. The US Military actively tries to exclude people who have criminal backgrounds, poor education, mental illness, etc. So basically communities that are victims of institutionalized poverty and discrimination tend to have poor human development scores, and those that don’t, don’t. Race and skin-tone don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/12 "2012-03-10T17:45:32Z")
What I’ve read is that racial disparity in the U.S. military being nonexistent refers only to the children of military members. If you look at (things like) the average grades, I.Q. scores, later achievements, etc. of the children of U.S. military, there’s no difference in the averages between the white and the black children. (Does somebody have a link to this study and to which measurements of equality it’s talking about?) Nobody was talking about the military members themselves. Yes, of course the proportion of blacks and whites who are officers and enlisted is different. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/13 "2012-03-11T17:49:14Z")
> [@theR](#): > > Granted, you said it’s relative so that could be an improvement depending how you compare to the non-military. That’s just it. African-Americans are 8 per cent of active duty military officers, but only [4 per cent of management in the private sector](http://www.lfuchrc.org/publications/publications/article.pdf). > [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I don’t understand what you are trying to get to here. The groups that have been mentioned - US military, legal immigrants from Africa to Canada and the US, are self selecting. The US Military actively tries to exclude people who have criminal backgrounds, poor education, mental illness, etc. So basically communities that are victims of institutionalized poverty and discrimination tend to have poor human development scores, and those that don’t, don’t. Race and skin-tone don’t matter. All employment is self selecting. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/14 "2012-03-13T18:33:58Z")
Prince George’s County in Maryland is the richest majority black county in the US. As for Canada in 2000 average income for blacks was $29,700 and for blacks in the US it was $33,447, so black people in the US were doing better than in Canada as far income. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/15 "2012-03-13T19:28:37Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Prince George’s County in Maryland is the richest majority black county in the US. > As for Canada in 2000 average income for blacks was $29,700 and for blacks in the US it was $33,447, so black people in the US were doing better than in Canada as far income. Where does that come from, and what is the comparison to whites in both countries in that year? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/16 "2012-03-13T20:13:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Prince George’s County in Maryland is the richest majority black county in the US. > As for Canada in 2000 average income for blacks was $29,700 and for blacks in the US it was $33,447, so black people in the US were doing better than in Canada as far income. According to statscan that info is incorrect.[ > [@](#): > > Among all visible minority subgroups, Blacks had the fourth lowest average income for full-time, full-year employment in 2000, at $35,103. Their income was equivalent to 80% of the non-visible minority income ($43,989) and 92% of the overall visible minority income ($37,957). Black women on average had an income of $31,358, which was equivalent to 82% of what the Black men earned (See chart 6). The income differential faced by Black females and males was smaller than in any other visible minority subgroup. ]([http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/lp/lo/lswe/we/ee\_tools/data/eedr/annual/2001/dgprofiles/blacksprofile.shtml](http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/lp/lo/lswe/we/ee_tools/data/eedr/annual/2001/dgprofiles/blacksprofile.shtml)) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/17 "2012-03-17T10:10:16Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t even think an issue exists in Canada. Blacks have never been marginalized here. There has never been slavery and black immigrants who came here willingly completely integrated into their communities. > > I’m not saying racism is non-existent, but from a societal perspective there is really no disparity as one would encounter in the US south, for example. There was slavery in Canada in colonial days. [Slavery in Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada) Well, not much, and before the modern state of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/18 "2012-03-17T19:17:59Z")
From a relative standpoint, vis-à-vis 2008, they’re also doing very well in obtaining the office of the President of the United States. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/19 "2012-03-18T19:13:21Z")
Bwuh? There are a lot more black heads of state in Africa than on the American continents. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363/20 "2012-03-18T19:27:02Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > From a relative standpoint, vis-à-vis 2008, they’re also doing very well in obtaining the office of the President of the United States. > > 😉 I though Obama was white. What makes him black? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-african-community-doing-best/615363.md?page=2)