# Where is the (American) midwest? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080 "2010-07-18T01:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/21 "2010-07-18T23:21:57Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Midwest goes from Pittsburgh in the east to St. Louis in the west; from the Canadian border down to the Ohio River. Thus Pittsburgh is a midwestern city (but not Philadelphia); St. Louis is Midwest but not Kansas City. Cincinatti but not Louisville. > > Some people consider Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Iowa and the Dakotas part of the Midwest but they are wrong – those are the Plains. If you’re going to split Pennsylvania, then it doesn’t make any sense to not split Kansas. Kansas City has very little in common with western Kansas, geographically or demographically - to speak nothing of of the fact that the majority of Kansas City is in Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/22 "2010-07-18T23:35:21Z")
Easterners think themselves either sophisticated if affluent, or savvy if working-class Southerners think themselves culturally enriched and eccentric. Westerners/Southwesterners think themselves rugged individualists West Coasters think themselves cool and superior Midwesterners think that anybody who cutivates any of those, or any other mystique for that matter, is a pathetic asshole. Midwesterners deny having any discernable culture, there’s no corner of the world where a Midwesterner is viewed as exotic, and frankly, Midwesterners keep human civilization grounded so everyone else can indulge in their own nonsense. And they like it that way! So it’s not really geographic; it’s more a state of mind. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/23 "2010-07-18T23:47:15Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Some people consider Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Iowa and the Dakotas part of the Midwest but they are wrong – those are the Plains. Neither Iowa nor Missouri is a Plains state–either culturally or ecologically. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/24 "2010-07-19T00:50:36Z")
Reading through this thread, the only conclusion I can draw is, “It beats the hell out of me”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/25 "2010-07-19T02:18:50Z")
[Midwestern United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States) The Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/26 "2010-07-19T16:25:25Z")
Minnesota Wisconsin Iowa Missouri Michigan Illinois Indiana Ohio Those are the states in the Midwest. The Dakotas, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma: these are the Plains states. Kentucky, Arkansas, and West Virgina start the South, Pennsylvania’s in the East. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/27 "2010-07-19T18:10:51Z")
The land area originally designated in the [Northwest Ordinance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Ordinance) of 1787. Everyplace else that claims a “Midwest” affiliation is just riding the coattails. Kinda like allowing Penn State and Nebraska into the Big Ten. Everyone wants to be part of the best. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/28 "2010-07-19T18:22:00Z")
Personally, I wouldn’t draw the boundaries along state lines: Cleveland, for example, is in the Midwest (though it’s near the edge), unless you carve out a separate region for the Great Lakes or something, but Athens, OH (towards the southeastern portion of the state) is Appalachia. The Midwest is west of the Appalachians, east of the Great Plains, and has its southern boundary somewhere in the vicinity of the Ohio River (I’m not sure precisely on that one). Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Indiana are all entirely in the Midwest, plus most of Minnesota and Iowa, and part of Ohio. I’m not sure about Missouri, but most of that’s probably Midwest, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/29 "2010-07-19T18:27:22Z")
I think the wiki-map **gonzo** posted is probably what I would say. Of course, the answer would depend entirely upon the _complete_ question, which would have to identify the total list of categories. If the only options are East, South, Midwest, and West, I would describe the MW as wiki does. If you start adding in categories like Plains, West coast, SW, mountains, it can get trickier. I tend to figure you can toss Kans/Nebr/Dak in with the Midwest because there really aren’t enough folk in those states for it to make that much of a difference. Tho the crops, stock, and rainfall are different from Ill/Iowa, the farming/ranching nature of their predominant industries makes them similar enough. One significant difference is the lack of big cities make them tend more Republican than Ill/Ohio/Mich… ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/30 "2010-07-19T18:56:19Z")
> [@hougaswd](#): > > Years ago, traveling in the Czech Republic, the only landmark in the Midwest that the average citizen knew was Chicago. Yes it’s like we’re from Chicago, but there are more cows. There’s also Al Capone, right? Bang, bang! I consider the Midwest of the Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Missouri. North Dakota south to Oklahoma I see as the Plains states. West of that are the western states. I consider the Confederate states to be “the South” ('cept Texas) and have no idea how to classify Kentucky. Luckily, it doesn’t come up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/31 "2010-07-19T18:58:37Z")
West of the Appalachians, north of the Ohio, east of the Mississippi, and south of the Great Lakes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/32 "2010-07-19T20:01:16Z")
I’ve heard people refer to those from Buffalo as being from the midwest, but I’ve never bought into that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/33 "2010-07-19T20:05:26Z")
I’m rather broad in my definition: The Midwest is that area to the west of the Appalachians, east of the Rockies, and north of Oklahoma. If your state includes the App. or Rockies, you’re not “Midwest”. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/34 "2010-07-19T20:07:40Z")
I think the central debate in this thread evolves from the geographic Midwest vs. the cultural Midwest. The cultural Midwest might go as far east as Pittsburgh (and might be coterminous with the “rust belt”), but geographically the Midwest ends at the Ohio/Pennsylvania border. The states that are (in my opinion) definitely included in both would be Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/35 "2010-07-19T20:53:25Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > … > Westerners/Southwesterners think themselves rugged individualists > … Until you get to the coast. Pacific Northwesterners are sort of crunchy and outdoorsy while Southern Californians are all California-y. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/36 "2010-07-20T00:22:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve heard people refer to those from Buffalo as being from the midwest, but I’ve never bought into that. I live in that area and I’ve never heard of anyone from here calling this the Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/37 "2010-07-20T03:01:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I live in that area and I’ve never heard of anyone from here calling this the Midwest. My wife said it once (she’s a Buffalo native). I called ‘bullshit’. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/38 "2010-07-20T16:27:53Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > My wife said it once (she’s a Buffalo native). I called ‘bullshit’. The only thing people with Buffalo have in common with people from Minneapolis is that they’re doomed to cheer for NFL teams that will never, ever, ever win the Super Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080/39 "2010-07-20T17:02:31Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’ve heard people refer to those from Buffalo as being from the midwest, but I’ve never bought into that. The only people who believe that are those who define the “East” as “places north of Philadelphia where you can actually see the ocean.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-american-midwest/547080.md?page=1)