# Where is the conservative outrage on McCain/Palin's geographic warfare? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922 "2008-10-21T18:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/81 "2008-10-22T14:43:07Z")
Eh, I can’t get too worked up over it because Palin and McCain are going to lose. Palin will go back to Alaska and either fade into obscurity or end up working in the right wing media somehow. There’s no reason to get all that upset over what Palin says because she’s irrelevant–or will be very soon. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/82 "2008-10-22T15:13:27Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > And at the campaign stop in Indiana, he did not say what he said to the CA donors. Yes, he did. > [@](#): > > “And of course they’re bitter. Of course they’re frustrated,” Obama told a crowd of supporters. “You would be too – in fact many of you are, because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. … Nobody is thinking about you.” > > He also said that this disillusionment with government’s inaction on economic issues makes people base their votes on other issues, such as guns, gay marriage and religion. Note use of the phrase “the same thing” to refer to the same thing that he claimed in California. > [@](#): > > Apart from that, you’re still wrong. No, I am correct. You have simply moved into Standard Denial Mode - “if the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts”. Again, so much for reality-based politics. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/83 "2008-10-22T15:19:31Z")
And so it continues: > [@](#): > > A North Carolina congressman locked in a tight re-election race admitted Tuesday to recently telling a crowd of John McCain supporters that “liberals hate real Americans,” the latest in a string of comments from Republicans that appear to question Democrats’ patriotism. > > \ > > The comments came at a McCain rally in Concord, North Carolina Saturday before the Arizona senator or members of his staff had arrived at the event. As first reported by the New York Observer, Hayes said, “Liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.” > > Hayes also told the raucous crowd to make sure “we don’t say something stupid, make sure we don’t say something we don’t mean,” warning the news media would likely distort such remarks. > > [Later he retracted his statement which in light of that last bit makes you wonder] > > Rep. Robin Hayes, a five-term Republican who has been heavily targeted by Democrats this election cycle, first denied making the remarks, but conceded Monday afternoon that he was accurately quoted. > > “After reading it, there is no doubt that it came out completely the wrong way,” Hayes said. “I actually was trying to work to keep the crowd as respectful as possible, so this is definitely not what I intended." > > SOURCE: [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/congressman-admits-saying-liberals-hate-real-americans-2/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/congressman-admits-saying-liberals-hate-real-americans-2/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/84 "2008-10-22T15:25:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, he did.Note use of the phrase “the same thing” to refer to the same thing that he claimed in California. Maybe your definition of “the same thing” is different than mine but where I come from the following two quotes are not the same: _“And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”_ \ _“And of course they’re bitter. Of course they’re frustrated. You would be too – in fact many of you are, because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. … Nobody is thinking about you.”_ Similar != Same YMMV of course. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/85 "2008-10-22T15:26:18Z")
::Copy and paste post 69.:: I like how Palin and Hayes’ remarks are always cautiously explained as “appearing” to question the patriotism of their opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/86 "2008-10-22T16:09:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > ::Copy and paste post 69.:: > > I like how Palin and Hayes’ remarks are always cautiously explained as “appearing” to question the patriotism of their opponents. Actually reading my article above further this seems to be a conservative meme rather than a one-off occurrence: > [@](#): > > [GOV. PALIN] “We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation.” > > \ > > [REP. HAYES] “Liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.” > > \ > > [REP. BACHMANN] …said late last week she’s concerned Barack Obama “may have anti-American views,” and suggested other liberal members of Congress also may be anti-American. > > “The news media should do a penetrating exposé and take a look,” she said. “I wish they would. I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out, are they pro-America or anti-America?” > > \ > > [MCCAIN SPOKESWOMAN PFOTENHAUER] “I certainly agree that northern Virginia has gone more Democratic. And as a proud resident of Oakton, Virginia I can tell you that the Democrats have just come in from the District of Columbia and moved into northern Virginia. And that’s really what you see there. But the rest of the state, ‘real’ Virginia if you will, I think will be very responsive to Senator McCain’s message," > > SOURCE: [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/congressman-admits-saying-liberals-hate-real-americans-2/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/congressman-admits-saying-liberals-hate-real-americans-2/) So…I should dismiss all that as rhetorical puffery? When we see a trend it should be ignored? (directed at anyone…not **Marley23** in particular) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/87 "2008-10-22T16:25:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You might want read the cite.A campaign stop isn’t a small gathering of donors, Indiana isn’t California, and two is a different number than one. Good grief, that’s the least important of the points I made in my post. Psychoanalyzing people as bitter (and there’s an element of sympathy in there) and denouncing them as anti-American are very different things. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/88 "2008-10-22T16:29:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So…I should dismiss all that as rhetorical puffery? When we see a trend it should be ignored? (directed at anyone…not **Marley23** in particular) I acknowledged earlier that Palin has amped up something that was part of a trend, and I guess the GOP in general is trying to do what Mark Penn told Hillary Clinton to do: play up Obama’s “non-American roots” (or whatever his term was). She didn’t do it. It should be called stupid and anything else, but not “treason” and that kind of hysteria. It’s a dumb smear, yes, but I think puffery is a fair word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/89 "2008-10-22T18:01:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Maybe your definition of “the same thing” is different than mine but where I come from the following two quotes are not the same: Not mine, Obama’s. He’s the one who said it was the same thing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/90 "2008-10-22T18:15:48Z")
[Palin apologizes.](http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/21/palin-apologies-pro-america-comments/) For shooting her own campaign in the foot and insulting the patriotism of the people of the very states and cities she and McCain can’t win without. Big of her. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/91 "2008-10-22T19:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > [REP. HAYES] “Liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.” It’s been said before, but: yeah, like that notorious liberal underachiever, Warren Buffett. Or those “big city” liberals that…what, got $500,000 condos from their inheritance? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/92 "2008-10-22T20:37:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, he did.Note use of the phrase “the same thing” to refer to the same thing that he claimed in California. > No, I am correct. You have simply moved into Standard Denial Mode - “if the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts”. As usual, the cognitive dissonance is yours. You don’t actually know what my politics are, yet you assume that my objection to your illogic is politically motivated. No. It is motivated by my intolerance for unreason, wherever I see it. Let A = “People have lost their jobs.” Let B = “People are bitter.” Let C = “People cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” In California, Obama claimed (A –\> B) AND (B –\> C). In Indiana, Obama claimed only A –\> B is true. He made no claim with respect to C, which was by far the more objectionable remark. When he used the words “because the same thing has happened here in Indiana”, he refers to proposition A. Just like in PA, people were losing their jobs due to a decline in industry. You are also the only person arguing that a has-been vandal and now mostly obscure college professor is a major figure. So I have to question your ability to make the intellectual distinctions required to identify someone else’s “Standard Denial Mode”. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/93 "2008-10-23T18:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Maeglin View Post > And at the campaign stop in Indiana, he did not say what he said to the CA donors. > Yes, he did. > Quote: > “And of course they’re bitter. Of course they’re frustrated,” Obama told a crowd of supporters. “You would be too – in fact many of you are, because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. … Nobody is thinking about you.” > > He also said that this disillusionment with government’s inaction on economic issues makes people base their votes on other issues, such as guns, gay marriage and religion. > Note use of the phrase “the same thing” to refer to the same thing that he claimed in California. Wait, what? I’m not sure I understand what you are implying. What Obama said there is this: Voters from the red states are bitter for being ignored and hurt by bad economic times and so are many voters from the blue states. “The same thing” in his quote refers to the fact that the Indiana voters have had the same thing happen to them. I think it’s a misreading to say that it means something else. The statement quoted above is not divisive but instead is trying to draw folks together. The San Francisco statement that included “clinging to guns, religion etc” was also couched in a way that was about trying to draw people together. The big problem that I see is the “clinging” which has some connotations of looking down on the things that they are clinging to. Regardless of what you think of those things, if you are trying create bridges between the two groups you ought not imply that the other group has stupid ideas. There is no way around the fact that the underlying idea of what Obama was talking about was understanding of and accommodation with the group of bitter voters. The way he phrased it in the San Francisco speech contained seeds of division and may reflect an underlying bias, but his message was clearly intended to be one of reconciliation. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922/94 "2008-10-23T18:25:55Z")
It is just more of how the repubs unite not divide. Bush will tell you, if you ask. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-conservative-outrage-on-mccain-palins-geographic-warfare/468922.md?page=4)