# Where is the end of the Universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 14, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186 "2013-08-14T03:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![breakneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@breakneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breakneck)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/1 "2013-08-14T03:20:48Z")
where is the end of the universe ? it has to end right? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/2 "2013-08-14T03:22:18Z")
Right by that restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/3 "2013-08-14T03:57:39Z")
By the time you find it - it will have moved again - so, no - not really. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/4 "2013-08-14T03:58:21Z")
I seem to remember the word infinity tossed around a bit during size of universe discussions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/5 "2013-08-14T04:02:52Z")
The universe might be finite – must be, if physicists think they can estimate its total mass – but, the surface of a sphere is finite; that doesn’t mean you’ll ever find the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/6 "2013-08-14T04:09:21Z")
14 billion years ago is one end. Now is the other. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/7 "2013-08-14T04:39:54Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > 14 billion years ago is one end. Now is the other. I’m not pleased with the political impasse in Washington either, but I’m not _that_ pessimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/8 "2013-08-14T05:49:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The universe might be finite – must be, if physicists think they can estimate its total mass – but, the surface of a sphere is finite; that doesn’t mean you’ll ever find the edge. Actually, what scientists are usually trying to estimate is its density, not its mass. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/9 "2013-08-14T09:39:26Z")
I know I have said this before. Some scientist said the universe is expanding at 5 to 55 times the speed of light. Even if the expansion is “only” light speed, you can never catch up to the “cutting edge” of the universe. So there is no “where” for you to nail down. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/10 "2013-08-14T13:16:10Z")
> [@breakneck](#): > > where is the end of the universe ? it has to end right? My somewhat limited understanding is that the universe will end in either the Big Rip (where the repellant forces driving the universe apart faster and faster will eventually do the same to all matter, ending up with even the atoms flying apart) or in a Big Crunch (where eventually all matter in the universe compacts back together). Either way (and I think the Big Rip theory is currently the more popular since by observation it’s clear that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating, not slowing down) we are talking about literally trillions of years in the future (for reference, the universe is only around 14 billion and change today, so you are looking at 2 orders of magnitude difference at the minimum), so no need to worry about it quite yet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/11 "2013-08-14T13:43:20Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Right by that restaurant. BUt that end was the ‘end’ of the universe - not the ‘end’ (location vs time) anyway - > [@](#): > > Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/12 "2013-08-14T14:10:41Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > I know I have said this before. Some scientist said the universe is expanding at > 5 to 55 times the speed of light. Even if the expansion is “only” light speed, you > can never catch up to the “cutting edge” of the universe. So there is no “where” > for you to nail down. Which scientist said this? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/13 "2013-08-14T14:14:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which scientist said this? I don’t know about now, but I seem to recall that in the early universe space expanded at many times the speed of light. I don’t know how ‘scientists’ could or would measure the current rate of expansion, but the various galaxies are moving away from each other at less than the speed of light but will one day (a few hundred billion years from now I suppose) be invisible to our galaxy and vice versa. ETA: [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3oj1YKIeag) guy says it might be. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/14 "2013-08-14T15:00:29Z")
> [@simster](#): > > BUt that end was the ‘end’ of the universe - not the ‘end’ > > (location vs time) > > anyway - No, it wasn’t – the universe itself ends and a messiah appears. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/15 "2013-08-14T15:08:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, it wasn’t – the universe itself ends and a messiah appears. Shouldn’t that be the other way around-otherwise, where would he appear? ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/16 "2013-08-14T15:08:39Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, it wasn’t – the universe itself ends and a messiah appears. Good thing the judge changed his name last week or we’d all be done for. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/17 "2013-08-14T15:26:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, it wasn’t – the universe itself ends and a messiah appears. It was just his cat. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/18 "2013-08-14T17:05:43Z")
I may be confusing the radio show with the books or TV series or movie, but I thought I remembered a messiah showing up right before the universe ends. Anyway, it definitely wasn’t then end-as-in-location, since it turned out they were still on Magrathea, right? That’s how they found Marvin again: “The first ten million years were the worst," said Marvin, "and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn’t enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.” Anyway, **Czarcasm** is right in that the messiah appears and then the universe ends. So, is this thread headed to the Cafe? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/19 "2013-08-14T17:15:33Z")
It’s not meaningful to speak of the Universe expanding at some multiple of light speed: The units are wrong. It’d be like if I asked how far away someone lived, and you said “55 MPH”, or “200 pounds”. The proper units for measuring the expansion rate of the Universe would be units of frequency. **XT** , the simplest model consistent with the evidence we have is that the Universe will have neither a Rip nor a Crunch, but just a whimper: Atoms (and planets, stars, and galaxies) will stay intact, but everything will just get cooler and cooler, and the available energy more and more dilute, until everything interesting just sort of fades away. That said, there’s enough we don’t know about the Dark Energy that a Rip or a Crunch is either one plausible (the former a bit more so than the latter). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186/20 "2013-08-14T17:26:43Z")
Opinions vary. Some say Plains, Texas. Others feel it’s Poipet, Cambodia. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-end-of-the-universe/666186.md?page=2)