# Where is the outrage?!! (Ben Carson - Muslims unfit to be POTUS) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007 "2015-09-20T20:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/1 "2015-09-20T20:27:02Z")
[As I once explained on these Boards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665422), even though I’m Canadian, I was a vicarious Republican for most of my life. It was the party that seemed to best represent the essence of the USA (at least to this furriner). Then something happened. It became the party of intolerance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. So, I suppose I shouldn’t be too surprised that Ben Carson, a Republican, potentially the next Republican presidential candidate, says [Muslims aren’t fit to be POTUS](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2015/09/20/us/politics/20reuters-usa-election-republicans.html)? But, _no one_ in his party calls him on it? Where is the outrage among the other contenders? Venal as they are, they could come across as tolerant by taking him to task (even if they believe the same in their heart). Yet they remain silent. I thought I had seen the full extent of Republican intolerance, ignorance, and hypocrisy in 2012 when I made the above-linked post. I was wrong. WTF have they become?! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/2 "2015-09-20T20:31:53Z")
The moment I found that Ben Carson was a _young earth_ creationist it was the moment that I knew that he was a crank magnet and that many other loopy things were going to come up from him. They say that we should expect the other shoe to fall? Well, we will hear a lot more falling, this guy is a shoe maker… ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/3 "2015-09-20T20:34:05Z")
I heard him say it on tv today. It was an unpatriotic, intolerant, un-American, according to American principles, thing to say. But then again, he’s a Republican, so it wasn’t a surprising thing to hear. I’m outraged. I’m “yawn, republican” outraged. I think their strategy is to just wear everyone down with stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/4 "2015-09-20T20:35:53Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I heard him say it on tv today. It was an unpatriotic, intolerant, un-American, according to American principles, thing to say. But then again, he’s a Republican, so it wasn’t a surprising thing to hear. I’m outraged. I’m “yawn, republican” outraged. I think their strategy is to just wear everyone down with stupidity. But not a peep from the other contenders? Are they afraid of losing their appeal? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/5 "2015-09-20T20:38:20Z")
I’m sad: I hadn’t realized he had sunk so far into bigotry. It shouldn’t, I suppose, have come as a surprise. Hatred for Islam is one of the uniting planks of the modern Republican Party. They also still maintain an alarming level of Judeophobia, as well as bigotry regarding blacks and Hispanics. It is convenient, at least, that they work so energetically to alienate various voting blocs. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/6 "2015-09-20T20:40:22Z")
They won’t jump on another if he’s not a threat to them. No matter what Un-American sentiment he offers. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/7 "2015-09-20T20:46:05Z")
Near the bottom of the linked article, only Graham comes right out and says it’s wrong. Of course, it’s only wrong to insult American soldiers who are Muslim. The others display the usual GOP lack of backbone and moral compass. > [@](#): > > Carson’s comments drew scorn from Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, another presidential candidate though one who garnered under 1 percent support in the CNN/ORC poll. > > “I think Dr. Carson needs to apologize,” Graham said, saying the comments were particularly offensive to U.S. soldiers who are Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/8 "2015-09-20T20:48:56Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > … even though I’m Canadian, I was a vicarious Republican for most of my life. It was the party that seemed to best represent the essence of the USA … Oh boy … **KarlGauss** , you’re a cool guy so I’ll let you off the hook this time … Jeffrey Glenn Miller Allison B. Krause William Knox Schroeder Sandra Lee Scheuer _What if you knew her And found her dead on the ground_ You’ll get more tolerance from a hungry Komodo Dragon than the typical Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/9 "2015-09-20T20:58:40Z")
The process began back in 1964 when Goldwater celebrated extremism and denigrated moderation during the Republican national convention. But Goldwater was trounced electorally. And both parties had their wackos anyway. What happened is that Republican craziness, crackpot promotion, civic well poisoning and bomb throwing ratcheted up starting with Nixon, while the left started seriously self policing after Mondale got trounced in 1984. In 1992 there were signs that something was seriously wrong with the GOP, but in fact the saner elements generally had a firm upper hand. Those who governed figured they had to throw red meat to the dogs every election year (in Nixon’s formulation) but that was treated as just the cost of doing business. Sure, Reagan had rhetorically boosted supply side crackpottery and formed close ties with anti-science evangelicals. But at bottom he was an ideologically hard right President who was willing to compromise for his ends. That matters. The inflection point was Newt Gingrich during the early 1990s. Deciding to shut down the government in order to blackmail his way over a Presidential veto threat betrayed a fundamental misunderstanding _or rather indifference_ to the habits of compromise that form the basis of the US democratic system. The fact is, systems formed on division of powers are susceptible to gridlock, which is why Parliamentary systems have a better survival rate in the world. The 2nd development was the early 1990s rise of the conservative electronic media, which didn’t care too much about getting their facts right. It’s all emotional appeals, all the time. Back in 1960, Republicans had an absolute lock on the professional class. Now they are anti-science and anti-scholarship: the level of debate is just sad. It’s no surprise that the professional class is trending Democratic, notwithstanding their affluence. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/10 "2015-09-20T21:18:47Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > So, I suppose I shouldn’t be too surprised that Ben Carson, a Republican, potentially the next Republican presidential candidate, says [Muslims aren’t fit to be POTUS](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2015/09/20/us/politics/20reuters-usa-election-republicans.html)? But, _no one_ in his party calls him on it? Where is the outrage among the other contenders? Venal as they are, they could come across as tolerant by taking him to task (even if they believe the same in their heart). Yet they remain silent. He’s not alone among Republicans in this viewpoint. Chances are most of the other contenders agree with him on it. However, they also see that beating that drum, on one side or the other, is not going to help them get ahead in this election. Trump got them all used to the idea of giving the other candidates enough rope to hang themselves, and they’re just going to let him go off on his own tangent. Too bad he’s not a mathematician; he might see how that’s a problem. Personally, I feel that neurosurgeons with no political experience aren’t fit to be President, so he won’t be getting my vote in any case. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/11 "2015-09-20T21:37:57Z")
Republicans aren’t fit to be President, as long as we’re having that conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/12 "2015-09-20T21:43:27Z")
I honestly feel sorry for non-batshit conservatives. E.g. those who believe that on balance (which avoids nitpicky claims of HYPOCRITE! for agreeing with some large programs), small-government approaches work better than broad-based ones; that irrespective of their personal feelings, some (but not all) issues are best approached legislatively rather than judicially; that overall economic and social progress would be greater with a combination of significantly lower taxes and lower spending; or that a combination of market forces and information accessibility will, in general, lead to more optimal outcomes than command and control regulations. Instead, they have to deal with batshit like this because a few decades ago, someone realized that pandering to ignorance and peddling an anti-intellectual stance would increase the market share of their infotainment enterprise. That, coupled with a cynical use of such a pulpit to propel policies that coincided with broader ends and many other factors that are not necessarily related to the political spectrum (e.g. the growing penchant for sound-bitey and overly simplistic packaging of news), led to an overall minimizing of rational discourse of issues within the party. And this is what you get. The ideals, direction and identity of the party being voiced by those who out-batshit their competition. Poor, non-batshit conservatives. Who speaks for thee? ETA: Drafted this before the excellent analysis by **Measure for Measure** ; it is a much broader and better description of what started to happen decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/13 "2015-09-20T21:47:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Republicans aren’t fit to be President, as long as we’re having that conversation. As I alluded to earlier, lots of respectable people in 1960 were Republican. Which doesn’t contradict your point. Speaking of 1960, Kennedy faced a fair amount of anti-Catholic sentiment when running for the Presidency. And Jim Crow existed in the South. But I am unaware of any national figures whose rhetoric was as extremist as Ben Carson’s was in the [Op’s link](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2015/09/20/us/politics/20reuters-usa-election-republicans.html?_r=0). The bigotry was generally couched in terms of fears of Papal influences. No such fig leafs in today’s example. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/14 "2015-09-20T21:47:47Z")
In 2002, President George W. Bush came to my workplace and gave a speech in which he condemned the 9/11 terrorists as people who had “hijack(ed) a great religion” for their evil goals. Carson’s statement is a sign of how curdled the attitude towards Islam and Muslims in the Republican party has become in a relatively short time. In Carson’s defense, I’d make a distinction between two possible meanings of his statement. If he is saying that he personally doesn’t favor a Muslim becoming president, that’s a little different than if he interprets the constitution as forbidding it. The former interpretation makes him of course a bigot. But not much different than many on the right these days. The latter interpretation means that he is also an idiot, who doesn’t see the contradiction of invoking the constitution to advocate ignoring it. Either way, he’s not fit to be president. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/15 "2015-09-20T21:53:39Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Poor, non-batshit conservatives. Who speaks for thee? Well, as a hopefully non-batshit conservative\*, whoever speaks for me is probably as revolted by what’s going on as I am. (\*I think I am now a [Scoop Jackson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M._Jackson) conservative, 'cause to me he was the ideal politician with great policies) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/16 "2015-09-20T22:01:00Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I honestly feel sorry for non-batshit conservatives. E.g. those who believe that on balance (which avoids nitpicky claims of HYPOCRITE! for agreeing with some large programs), small-government approaches work better than broad-based ones; that irrespective of their personal feelings, some (but not all) issues are best approached legislatively rather than judicially; that overall economic and social progress would be greater with a combination of significantly lower taxes and lower spending; or that a combination of market forces and information accessibility will, in general, lead to more optimal outcomes than command and control regulations. > > Instead, they have to deal with batshit like this because a few decades ago, someone realized that pandering to ignorance and peddling an anti-intellectual stance would increase the market share of their infotainment enterprise. That, coupled with a cynical use of such a pulpit to propel policies that coincided with broader ends and many other factors that are not necessarily related to the political spectrum (e.g. the growing penchant for sound-bitey and overly simplistic packaging of news), led to an overall minimizing of rational discourse of issues within the party. > > And this is what you get. The ideals, direction and identity of the party being voiced by those who out-batshit their competition. > > Poor, non-batshit conservatives. Who speaks for thee? One of the problems is that market fundamentalist positions became less empirically tenable over time. Bentham and JS Mill were 19th century liberals who believed in poor houses: what the impoverished needed was better discipline. In the absence of empirical experience, get-tough and go-easy arguments are of equal weight. But fast forward 100+ years and we can see that Europe with a far more generous social welfare state doesn’t in fact suffer economic collapse and spiraling tyranny. I agree though that there remains a broad territory of debate regarding what proper economic policy is. But hard measurement and experience has basically destroyed certain far left and rightist reactionary positions. Speaking generally, the Democrats and the US left has adapted to this reality. Unfortunately, the conservative media has responded with paranoid theories about liberal bias with respect to ideologically inconvenient facts. Though to answer your question narrowly, I might say that Bruce Bartlett, architect of the Kemp Roth tax cuts, speaks for sane conservatives. Following critical statements made of GWBush, he was sent to the cornfield. Transplant the Democratic Party to Europe and it would be right of center. I’m actually comfortable with that: I’m a centrist by standards of OECD countries, which puts me on the far left fringe of the American political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/17 "2015-09-20T22:03:23Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > … > Speaking of 1960, Kennedy faced a fair amount of anti-Catholic sentiment when running for the Presidency. … Was the Anti-Catholic voice being expressed by Muslims? Ha ha ha, just kidding! Of course it wasn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/18 "2015-09-20T22:41:11Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Instead, they have to deal with batshit like this because a few decades ago, someone realized that pandering to ignorance and peddling an anti-intellectual stance would increase the market share of their infotainment enterprise. That, coupled with a cynical use of such a pulpit to propel policies that coincided with broader ends and many other factors that are not necessarily related to the political spectrum (e.g. the growing penchant for sound-bitey and overly simplistic packaging of news), led to an overall minimizing of rational discourse of issues within the party. As a buddy of mine put it, “You can’t spend 30 years dry-humping the crazy and then act surprised when the crazy wants to fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/19 "2015-09-20T23:09:22Z")
And I did bet to myself that since Ben Carson is a young earth creationist that then a lot of scientific subjects that do look at the earth as being billions of years old would be disparaged by him. It was easy to deduce that evolution is already dismissed by him, deducing that then human induced climate change was also going to be denied by him was a gimme. > **[It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to tell Ben Carson is clueless on climate](https://grist.org/politics/it-doesnt-take-a-brain-surgeon-to-tell-ben-carson-is-clueless-on-climate/)** > > The Republican presidential hopeful spouts off on science, the economy, and other things he doesn’t understand. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to tell Ben Carson is clueless on climate > [@](#): > > Despite Carson’s profession, which requires some level of respect for science, he rejects the science on climate change, a stance that not only puts him at odds with 97 percent of scientists globally, but also 88 percent of African-American physicians. That’s pretty terrifying, considering that the National Draft Ben Carson for President PAC out-raised the popular Ready for Hillary PAC last year. > > Apparently there are a lot of people out there who know Carson is performing malpractice with the facts on climate change, and will still pay a whole lot of money to see him in the White House — an affirmative action move that a lot of those same people would not tolerate under any other conditions. > [@](#): > > Carson on not accepting climate change science: “There’s always going to be either cooling or warming going on. As far as I’m concerned, that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is that we have an obligation and a responsibility to protect our environment.” > > Yes! There are cool days and warm days. And days that are neither, according to Stringer Bell’s 40-degree day theory. But to protect the environment responsibly you need to know the difference between hot and cold, and the planet is warming, unequivocally. This shouldn’t be brain surgery, Dr. Carson. This is what rapid warming over decades looks like: > > Carson on data: “The wonderful thing about medicine — when you show data, it changes people’s minds. That doesn’t happen in politics.” > > But all those scientists and black physicians showed you the data on climate change, and it hasn’t changed your mind? Bye, Felicia. > > Carson on the EPA: “Our Environmental Protection Agency should be told to work in conjunction with business, industry, and universities to find the most eco-friendly ways of developing our energy resources.” > > The EPA is already doing this! Take the agency’s Clean Power Plan for addressing greenhouse gas emissions — there are over 2 million public comments on that thing. You know who submitted them? Businesses! Industry trade groups! Universities! The EPA’s environmental justice collaborative problem-solving model begs industries and universities to work with the agency and communities — even in communities who don’t want to be anywhere near those industries! ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/20 "2015-09-20T23:54:53Z")
Is nobody going to mention the obvious interpretation of his statement? Assuming Obama = Muslim Muslim = Unfit to be President Therefore Obama = Unfit to be President It is a clunky, veiled slam on Obama. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007.md?page=2)