# Where is the outrage?!! (Ben Carson - Muslims unfit to be POTUS) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007 "2015-09-20T20:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/221 "2015-09-23T16:50:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If an Egyptian couple were to give birth to a baby Egyptian somewhere within the U.S.A., that baby Egyptian would meet the “natural born citizen” qualification for the Office of the President. > > When that natural born citizen reaches the age of 35, they would meet the age requirement for the Office of the President. > > If that natural born citizen were to have resided within the U.S.A. for the fourteen years prior to becoming President, they would have then met all of the age and citizenship requirements for qualification for Office of the President. > > They would then be eligible to be POTUS, if not electable. I would recommend that they renounce their Egyptian citizenship, to avoid any empirical entanglements. 🙂 > > [Qualifications and Requirements for the Office of President of the United States](http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html) That is a lot of hand waving for no reason. The claim was made that the Muslims were nasty people and the “evidence” cited was an opinion poll taken in Egypt. You can dance to your heart’s content, and none of the people thus polled are going to run for the U.S. Presidency. Take the same poll in Dearborn and see whether you get similar results or else stop being silly. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/222 "2015-09-23T16:51:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > - The “86%” figure is not the percentage of Egyptians who polled in favor of the death penalty for apostasy. It is the percentage of Egyptians who would already support Sharia as the law for Egypt who would support the death penalty for apostasy. Since the base number is 74%, the 86% of that number reduces the overall to 63.64%–still a very high number, (if accurate), but not 86%. I sense a little bit of a desire to avert your gaze from this (though not as much as one could hope for). Say the Chair of the Federal Reserve converts to Islam and announces that he does not intend to resign, but to keep his position and help “move the Fed in a direction that does not rely on _riba_”. A pundit, “Ken Barson”, says the Chair’s religious beliefs make him ineligible to run a modern Central Bank. Religious bigotry? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/223 "2015-09-23T16:53:07Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > The fact that you think I did not know this says more about you than me. Egyptians can immigrate the the U.S., have children, and teach children that it is proper to put to death idolaters of Islam. That is very uncommon. It would be even more unlikely for such a person to run for POTUS, but come on… the whole question is theoretical at this point. Do you think Carson was under the impression that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had declared? No, he probably was thinking that in the future an American Muslim might have to explain where he stands on certain Islamic ideas… [Riba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riba), for example. You are the one who dropped an Egyptian poll into a discussion of the U.S. presidential race. As to what Carson might have thought, I have already quoted his beliefs, (including his ignorance and lies). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/224 "2015-09-23T16:59:30Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > I sense a little bit of a desire to avert your gaze from this (though not as much as one could hope for). > Say the Chair of the Federal Reserve converts to Islam and announces that he does not intend to resign, but to keep his position and help “move the Fed in a direction that does not rely on _riba_”. A pundit, “Ken Barson”, says the Chair’s religious beliefs make him ineligible to run a modern Central Bank. Religious bigotry? BZZZT! Your attempt fails. If the Fed Chair announced a specific action, the response would be to that action, not to a presupposition based on his religion. If Carson wants to oppose radicalized, fundamentalist, Wahhabist Muslims, he is free to do so. That is not what he said. His original statement indicated that he presumed that any Muslim running for office was such a person. He then demanded that the person would renounce his religion before Carson would support him and then claimed that any Muslim whom he could support would be condemned by the Muslim community. That sort of nonsense is nothing but ignorant bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/225 "2015-09-23T17:27:02Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > No, Ben Carson is doing that. :smack: No, Carson did not say that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/226 "2015-09-23T17:37:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are the one who dropped an Egyptian poll into a discussion of the U.S. presidential race… The poll surveyed Muslims from countries as diverse as Niger, Djibouti, Jordan, Pakistan and Malaysia. I think you are correct that far fewer American Muslims are in favor or executing apostates. Could you hazard a guess or point to some research that shows what percentage or Islamic Dearbornites support Islamic financial concepts ? Are such concepts compatible with the job of a Central Banker or other financial regulator? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/227 "2015-09-23T17:47:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > No, Carson did not say that. :smack: Is your “point” that Port Authority Carson wouldn’t support it personally, not that it shouldn’t be permitted at all? Not a great choice of hill to die on, but suit yourself. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/228 "2015-09-23T18:00:16Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > The poll surveyed Muslims from countries as diverse as Niger, Djibouti, Jordan, Pakistan and Malaysia. I think you are correct that far fewer American Muslims are in favor or executing apostates. > > Could you hazard a guess or point to some research that shows what percentage or Islamic Dearbornites support Islamic financial concepts ? Are such concepts compatible with the job of a Central Banker or other financial regulator? The 86% figure was specific to Egypt with the additional provision I noted. And the interesting thing about those polls is that those countries are not enacting laws to support those opinions. I cannot identify the exact disconnect, but the reality is that anti-apostasy laws (in the rare places that have them), have only resulted in a half dozen convictions in the last few years, (and far fewer before that), have occurred almost exclusively in backwater regions of those countries, and have tended to be overthrown by higher courts. I have no idea how many Muslims in Dearborn favor Islamic or Capitalist economic policies. I can’t imagine how it would mean anything. No one who opposes Capitalism is going to get elected to any office higher then mayor or state legislator in the U.S. Anyone who ran for POTUS on such a platform would have to drop out for lack of funds within a month. That is not what Carson opposed, however, and that was not the extent of his calumny. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/229 "2015-09-23T21:38:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (posts shortened) > > CAIR wants you believe that they should decide who should, and who shouldn’t, be allowed to run for POTUS. > [@bobot](#): > > No, Ben Carson is doing that. :smack: > [@doorhinge](#): > > No, Carson did not say that. :smack: > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [:Shrug:](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-transcript-september-20-2015-n430581) Quote: CHUCK TODD: Let me wrap this up by finally dealing with what’s been going on, Donald Trump, and a deal with a questioner that claimed that the president was Muslim. Let me ask you the question this way: Should a President’s faith matter? Should your faith matter to voters? DR. BEN CARSON: Well, I guess it depends on what that faith is. If it’s inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course it should matter. But if it fits within the realm of America and consistent with the constitution, no problem. CHUCK TODD: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution? DR. BEN CARSON: No, I don’t, I do not. CHUCK TODD: So you– DR. BEN CARSON: I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that. CHUCK TODD: And would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for Congress? DR. BEN CARSON: Congress is a different story, but it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are, just as it depends on what anybody else says, you know. And, you know, if there’s somebody who’s of any faith, but they say things, and their life has been consistent with things that will elevate this nation and make it possible for everybody to succeed, and bring peace and harmony, then I’m with them. CHUCK TODD: And I take it you believe the president was born in the United States and is a Christian? DR. BEN CARSON: I believe that he is. I have no reason to doubt what he says. CHUCK TODD: All right, Dr. Carson I will leave it there, I look forward to speaking with you again soon. DR. BEN CARSON: All right, thank you very much. > [@bobot](#): > > I heard him say it on tv today. It was an unpatriotic, intolerant, un-American, according to American principles, thing to say. But then again, he’s a Republican, so it wasn’t a surprising thing to hear. I’m outraged. I’m “yawn, republican” outraged. I think their strategy is to just wear everyone down with stupidity. Yup, he sure did. But I’m only a little outraged because I expect no more from Republicans. The stupid hate thing isn’t working. Neither is denying that a hateful comment was intended in a hateful way. He can qualify the statement after the fact in any half assed way he chooses, but he ain’t fooling anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/230 "2015-09-23T23:46:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (posts shortened) > > CAIR wants you believe that they should decide who should, and who shouldn’t, be allowed to run for POTUS. Just shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/231 "2015-09-24T17:25:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Bullshit. > > Even if your exceptionally kind “interpretation” of his words was true, (which it was not), he has “explained” his comments by making more egregiously ignorant and Islamophobic remarks. > > [“I could never support a candidate for President of the United States that was Muslim and had not renounced the central tenant of Islam: Sharia Law,” he wrote. "I know that there are many peaceful Muslims who do not adhere to these beliefs. But until these tenants are fully renounced…I cannot advocate any Muslim candidate for President.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/21/politics/ben-carson-muslim-sharia-law-presidency/) > Sharia is not “the central tenet of Islam.” That is a stupid statement that declares ignorance in the extreme. > There are multiple versions of Sharia, (which simply means a legal philosophy, not one express set of laws), and living in metro Detroit near as many (Dearborn) Muslims as he does, he should be aware of that. > > He then went further, [“Now, if someone has a Muslim background, and they’re willing to reject those tenets and to accept the way of life that we have, and clearly will swear to place our Constitution above their religion, then of course they will be considered infidels and heretics, but at least I would then be quite willing to support them,” Carson said.](http://www.christiantoday.com/article/ben.carson.affirms.rejection.of.a.muslim.us.president.who.espouses.shariah.law/65462.htm) > This is nothing but stupid hatred. The claim that a Muslim who did not place his or her religion above the laws of the U.S. would be considered an infidel and a heretic by (presumably) the majority of other Muslims is nothing but hate speech. It implies that all the Muslims currently serving in the military have rejected their religion for their country (which they swear to support when they enlist), and that their families and fellow citizens consider them “infidels” and “heretics” and that no good Muslim can be a good citizen. > > He then goes on to make a false accusation regarding _taqiyya_: > [“Taqiyya is a component of Sharia that allows, and even encourages you to lie to achieve your goals.”](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/09/22/ben-carsons-claim-that-taqiyya-encourages-muslims-to-lie-to-achieve-your-goals/) That claim is debunked in the linked article, although it echos the same sort of lies spoken about Jews and Catholics by the KKK and similar groups. > > Ralph, he is a bigot. Your misguided defense of Carson is dumb. I actually agree with Carson 100% on all of those statements. Now all he has to do is call out Fundamentalist Christians\* running for office substituting “Bible” for “Qur’an” and “What the Bible says” for “Sharia Law”. \*aka Teabaggers ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/232 "2015-09-24T19:29:57Z")
Here we have a thread that is all about calling Carson a hateful bigot because of what he said about Muslims. Is there no irony in people saying “If you substitute Christian for Muslim, it is fine” ? Here is a [story](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/opinion/sunday/oliver-sacks-sabbath.html?_r=0) that mentions a very smart, fundamentalist person who believes something that most modern people do not: that it is wrong to violate the prohibition in Deuteronomy 22:11 against clothes made of wool and linen. If Aumann was running for President, would it be religious bigotry to use this fact to urge that he not be elected? This belief of his probably would not make a lot of difference in the conduct of his office. Electing a Christian Scientist to be head of the CDC might be another matter, as might selecting a Muslim who believes in Islamic Finance to be the Secretary of the Treasury. I don’t think one is a hateful bigot if given candidates C and C’, C’ being a young-earth creationist, you prefer C to C’. Nor M to M’ where M’ is in favor of laws that criminalize insulting Mohammed. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/233 "2015-09-24T19:36:16Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Here we have a thread that is all about calling Carson a hateful bigot because of what he said about Muslims. Is there no irony in people saying “If you substitute Christian for Muslim, it is fine” ? Are they the same people? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/234 "2015-09-24T19:48:51Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Here we have a thread that is all about calling Carson a hateful bigot because of what he said about Muslims. Is there no irony in people saying “If you substitute Christian for Muslim, it is fine” ? No. Carson said that no Muslim should be president, which is more bigoted than saying that no Muslim fundamentalist should be president, which is in turn more bigoted than saying no Christian or Muslim fundamentalist. P.S. excellent work on quote-mining. **Saint Cad** clearly implied that Carson should disavow Christian Fundamentalism _in addition to_ Muslim Fundamentalism, despite what your out-of-context quotation implies. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/235 "2015-09-24T20:09:45Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > **Saint Cad** clearly implied that Carson should disavow Christian Fundamentalism _in addition to_ Muslim Fundamentalism, despite what your out-of-context quotation implies. I thought I was pointing out the irony that while he demands that a Muslim should run this country according to the Constitution rather than the Qur’an (which I agree with), no Pub seems to want to call out Christian politicians (e.g. Kim Davis) that think the[ir interpretation of the] Bible should run this country rather than the Constitution. But I agree with your inference of what I said too. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/236 "2015-09-24T20:11:13Z")
If I saw evidemce pr heard the candidate making statements that their religious beliefs are more important tha the law of the land. THAT would be sufficient in my mind not to vote for them. But even then. I wouldn’t claim they shouldn’t be eligible to run. Yet in my mind I’d still be comfortable thinking they’re not fit to be President. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/237 "2015-09-24T20:37:43Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Here is a [story](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/opinion/sunday/oliver-sacks-sabbath.html?_r=0) that mentions a very smart, fundamentalist person who believes something that most modern people do not: that it is wrong to violate the prohibition in Deuteronomy 22:11 against clothes made of wool and linen. If Aumann was running for President, would it be religious bigotry to use this fact to urge that he not be elected? This belief of his probably would not make a lot of difference in the conduct of his office. But that is not the point. I’m all in favor of a politician living their religious code in their private lives. The problem is when they believe everyone should live by their religious codes because that is what Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh/FSM commands. Hey if Aumann doesn’t want to mix fibers good for him but don’t make a law preventing me from wearing 95% cotton/5% poly blends. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/238 "2015-09-24T21:38:11Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > I sense a little bit of a desire to avert your gaze from this (though not as much as one could hope for). > Say the Chair of the Federal Reserve converts to Islam and announces that he does not intend to resign, but to keep his position and help “move the Fed in a direction that does not rely on _riba_”. A pundit, “Ken Barson”, says the Chair’s religious beliefs make him ineligible to run a modern Central Bank. Religious bigotry? Alan Greenspan was a disciple of Ayn Rand. If he used Randian economics, instead of accepted economic theory, in running the Fed he should be kicked out. If your off-the-wall hypothetical Muslim rejected sound economic theory he should be kicked out also. Religion has nothing to do with it. Greenspan’s screw-ups were not from Randianism. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/239 "2015-09-24T21:58:10Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Just shut up. Oh My! I’m devastated. How will I be able to get 8 hours of sleep tonight? :eek: Bwahahahaha. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007/240 "2015-09-24T22:47:40Z")
I did not carefully read what Saint Cad wrote, and his post is not an example of what I meant. It is not hard to find in this thread, though. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > You’ll get more tolerance from a hungry Komodo Dragon than the typical Republican. Carson is at a disadvantage in that he is a specific example, whereas “Muslim” and “typical Republican” are general terms the definition of which people can disagree on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-ben-carson-muslims-unfit-to-be-potus/732007.md?page=13)