# Where is the outrage over mom 24/7 sex slave **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360 "2008-03-22T19:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/681 "2008-03-26T04:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I would argue that the appearance of abuse to the children is all that matters. The conceptions of the adults are irrelevant. Do the children see fear? I don’t know. I know theys see their mother grovelling like a dog in front of their stepfather. WTF is that doing to their heads? [/QUOTE] I agree, for what it’s worth. I’m just not convinced that that’s actually what they see, rather than her just liking to pretend\* that that’s why she’s kneeling on the floor, when in reality, she’s just kneeling on the floor. \*I hesitate to use the word pretend, but I can’t think of a more suitable one. It’s a game they play, basically. Like with the notebook \*\*Rubystreak \*\*brought up. I can imagine that being done in a playful, non-serious way, and \*\*freekalette \*\*seems to confirm that (Again, all I know is what she tells us, and of course, she could just be backpedaling, though I don’t really get that vibe from her. I’m just trying to find a way to describe it so that it becomes a little more comprehensible.) And now I really do have stop posting and go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Robin\_Goodfellow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Robin\_Goodfellow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robin_Goodfellow)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/682 "2008-03-26T04:21:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I would argue that the appearance of abuse to the children is all that matters. The conceptions of the adults are irrelevant. Do the children see fear? I don’t know. I know theys see their mother grovelling like a dog in front of their stepfather. WTF is that doing to their heads? [/QUOTE] I dunno. Why don’t you ask them? You ask a lot of rhetorical questions in this thread, but, other than changing your off-the-wall accusation, your understanding of BDSM and the practitioners thereof is apparently in complete limbo. 14 pages and there is apparently no mental progress on this subject at all, in the minds of **Dio** , **Justin** , **Sarah** , and a few others. That’s fine, I guess. You started out deliberately misunderstanding the lifestyle, spent thousands of words lampooning it without actually giving a damn about the participants, and now at least one poster is sick of hearing it. Either show the slightest damn bit of respect (and no, **Dio** , “fucked up” is not respect) or accept that you’re a damn social conservative with no sense of justice regarding consensual crimes and go back to trying to criminalize marijuana or some stupid thing. I give up. I’ll be in some other forum where people actually think before they post the same judgmental drivel for the fiftieth time in a row, now with different quotes. Also: what the hell is this “attention whore” shit. ‘Ask the prison doctor’ sounds pretty attention whoring, but it taught a lot of people a lot of things from a unique source. Now there are threads about sexuality and satanism that people might not’ve expected a month ago, and suddenly it’s all bad news cuz-- what, you want the status quo every fucking month? Go back to pitting Ed Zotti or something if that’s what you want. The rest of us are here to learn something. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/683 "2008-03-26T04:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=supergoose] That’s nice. So you’re saying that you encourage such relationship? Or are you just saying that it’s just as unhealthy? Because no one is disputing that. Not specifically aimed at you, more in general: yeah, there are comparable relationships. And there are relationships that are worse. Does that mean we can’t comment on this particular relationship? [/QUOTE] No, it means that successful societies have risen out of these conditions. Most of the people participating in this thread seem to have the idea that those conditions necessarily lead to some kind of highly negative result. The thing is, no one has actually said what that result would be. They’ve also neglected to provide any kind of proof for said accusation. Same said societies have also given rise to many a balanced, healthy adult. We have real, meaningful proof of that. Do we have any proof of the opposing argument, though? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/684 "2008-03-26T04:25:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] And the reality is that her _children_ are being forced to serve him. [/QUOTE] Okay, I actually agree with much of what you have been saying in this thread, but asking a child to take a plate of food to a parent isn’t really forcing the child to serve the parent. I mean, I ask my kids to do stuff for me or for their dad all the time, and I would not consider myself to be forcing them into subservience in any kind of meaningful way. That being said, if **Freekazette** is indeed in some kind of headspace where she’s envisioning herself _and the kids_ as subservient to the Dom/Master – even if she’s not overt about it to the kids – that’s kind of messed up. And while I’m here, the thing that I find the most messed up about all of this is her comment about how her husband will punish her by staying out with his friends. So this means that either he values the company of his friends much more than he values the company of his wife; or he is punishing himself along with his wife (which would never do, I suspect). He is also denying his presence not only to his wife but to his kids as well. Not cool. I am with **Rubystreak** in that to me, this does not feel like a D/s dynamic but rather just a dick move on the husband’s part. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/685 "2008-03-26T04:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=Robin Goodfellow] I dunno. Why don’t you ask them? You ask a lot of rhetorical questions in this thread, but, other than changing your off-the-wall accusation, your understanding of BDSM and the practitioners thereof is apparently in complete limbo. 14 pages and there is apparently no mental progress on this subject at all, in the minds of **Dio** , **Justin** , **Sarah** , and a few others. That’s fine, I guess. You started out deliberately misunderstanding the lifestyle, spent thousands of words lampooning it without actually giving a damn about the participants, and now at least one poster is sick of hearing it. Either show the slightest damn bit of respect (and no, **Dio** , “fucked up” is not respect) or accept that you’re a damn social conservative with no sense of justice regarding consensual crimes and go back to trying to criminalize marijuana or some stupid thing. I give up. I’ll be in some other forum where people actually think before they post the same judgmental drivel for the fiftieth time in a row, now with different quotes. Also: what the hell is this “attention whore” shit. ‘Ask the prison doctor’ sounds pretty attention whoring, but it taught a lot of people a lot of things from a unique source. Now there are threads about sexuality and satanism that people might not’ve expected a month ago, and suddenly it’s all bad news cuz-- what, you want the status quo every fucking month? Go back to pitting Ed Zotti or something if that’s what you want. The rest of us are here to learn something. [/QUOTE] How many times do I have to say that it’s not about the “lifestyle,” it’s about the _parenting_. Get off your cross already. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/686 "2008-03-26T04:39:03Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] No, it means that successful societies have risen out of these conditions. [/quote] What do you mean by “successful?” If everybody doesn’t have equal rights, how successful can a society be? > [@](#): > > Most of the people participating in this thread seem to have the idea that those conditions necessarily lead to some kind of highly negative result. The thing is, no one has actually said what that result would be. They’ve also neglected to provide any kind of proof for said accusation. Kids seeing their mother treated like shit makes them feel bad. You disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/687 "2008-03-26T04:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Kids seeing their mother treated like shit makes them feel bad. [/QUOTE] Or it doesn’t make them feel bad because it teaches them that it’s okay to treat your mother like shit. Neither is an optimal outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/688 "2008-03-26T04:45:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Kids seeing their mother treated like shit makes them feel bad. You disagree? [/QUOTE] First, you’re going to have to prove that the kids are perceiving their mother as being treated “like shit.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/689 "2008-03-26T04:52:20Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] First, you’re going to have to prove that the kids are perceiving their mother as being treated “like shit.” [/QUOTE] No, because only a retard could possibly think the kids perceive otherwise. They see a guy ordering their mother around like a servant. They see her wearing a dog collar and grovelling at his feet for affection. They are told that he is the “boss” of the household and that they have to participate in servicing his demands. Bringing the kids into it is beyond the pale and you sound like one more childless expert on parenting. I don’t think a lot of people in this thread understand how sensitive children are to family dynamics, don’t know anything about how they respond to what they see and can’t really see them as anything other than theoretical abstractions. It’s not about the goddamn lifestyle, you oh, so tolerant assholes, it’s about straightening up and acting like a mature adult in front of the kids. They need their mother to be their mother, not a character in a never ending psychodrama. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/690 "2008-03-26T04:56:19Z")
For that matter, demanding that other people prove the harm is bullshit. Prove it’s fucking _safe_. Don’t use kids as guinea pigs and just hope they’ll be ok. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/691 "2008-03-26T04:56:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, because only a retard could possibly think the kids perceive otherwise. [/QUOTE] Conducted on-site interviews, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/692 "2008-03-26T04:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Conducted on-site interviews, have you? [/QUOTE] Self-reported surveys. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/693 "2008-03-26T04:58:07Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] First, you’re going to have to prove that the kids are perceiving their mother as being treated “like shit.” [/QUOTE] They may not; they may perceive that their mother is being treated perfectly appropriately. Why is that better? Sexualized role playing is too sophisticated and mature a concept for children. They are not best served by parents who are modeling subservience or dominance as appropriate in personal relationships. They won’t understand that it is “pretend” because they don’t perceive adults as engaging in “pretend”; they won’t understand it is “pretend” because “pretend” is things like superheroes and princesses, not things like master and servant; and (hopefully) they won’t understand the sexual pay-off. I have no problem with anything two consenting adults want to do in the privacy of their bedroom. I have a problem with parents deciding it is more important to engage in their own kink than it is to promote healthy and respectful self-images, gender concepts, conflict resolution, and communication. There may well be times it is appropriate to kneel at the feet of your husband; in front of your kids isn’t one of them. If you like him to your hair, sit on the couch as he does it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/694 "2008-03-26T05:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=Robin Goodfellow] 14 pages and there is apparently no mental progress on this subject at all, in the minds of **Dio** , **Justin** , **Sarah** , and a few others. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry you believe that to be the case. I have been trying to learn something from these threads…I’m sorry that you don’t like the fact that I have let some of my concerns be known, but that does not mean that I am not trying to understand where you are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/695 "2008-03-26T05:26:43Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] They are not best served by parents who are modeling subservience or dominance as appropriate in personal relationships. [/QUOTE] Well geez, if we’re going to start policing parenting styles, I nominate religious parents for the next group of people to be disenfranchised. At least _they’ve_ managed to kill their own children through lack of medical care, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/696 "2008-03-26T05:35:19Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] Well geez, if we’re going to start policing parenting styles, I nominate religious parents for the next group of people to be disenfranchised. [/quote] I nominate some of them too (but I don’t automatically equate “religious” with dominance and submission). And do you think parenting choices\* should never be judged at all, or should it just be a free-for-all? > [@](#): > > At least _they’ve_ managed to kill their own children through lack of medical care, etc. So anything short of _killing_ a child is ok parenting? - I won’t call **freek’s** choices a “style,” because I see them as an _abdication_ of parental responsibilities, not as some novel approach or method. What she’s doing is no more a parenting “style” than being an alcoholic or a compulsive gambler. She’s choosing a sexual addiction over her kids. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/697 "2008-03-26T05:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] I think the difference is, you were a kid. She is a 28 year old mother of 3. I can’t imagine thinking I was in “deep shit” if I was mean to my husband. My mom, yeah, but my husband? I would feel regretful when I realized I was unduly nasty, but the remorse and apology would come from within, not from some externally imposed source of punishment. Can freekalette not realize when she’s being a bitch without Joe’s “Look”? If not, why not? Isn’t that governor inside a pretty important part of being a functional adult? [/quote] Well, you got me there. I guess I was just remembering my dad’s “Look”. It was damned scary-my dad’s a huge guy. I basically should have read closer-I was thinking an annoyed “look” isn’t really a bad thing. But I overreacted myself, and for that I appologize. > [@](#): > > In the other thread, she said that her husband keeps a notebook all day long of her good and bad behaviors so that he can dole out punishments, including hanging out with his friends instead of her on purpose to make her feel sad, later on. If you didn’t call it a D/s relationship or associate it with a sexual kink, you would just think this was the behavior of an overly controlling asshole, wouldn’t you? Picture your best girlfriend, married to a man who records all her actions in a little book so that he can use them against her later. I’ve known people like that, who used the (stated or unstated) rationale, “you were mean to me, so I went out with the guys to show you who’s boss.” It’s not because they’re a dom, it’s because they’re vengeful for perceived slights. To me, that’s much more distasteful that some dog collar she wears. It seems so… petty. Okay, now THAT part I missed. That is seriously, seriously fucked up. Hella fucked up. **Dio** , I appologize. (Also, not having seen the comment you edited out, that I can’t comment on) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/698 "2008-03-26T05:46:34Z")
Not able to edit, but I somehow skipped this part: > [@](#): > > Sure, it’s selfish as fuck of me to still want to have my hair stroked even after I was acting like an asshole for no good reason, but there you have it. Damn…just, damn. It’s one thing to be cranky, and say, “Honey, sorry about that-I didn’t mean to be so bitchy”, and quite another to feel guilty for wanting affection from your spouse after an argument. (Okay, someone can start “punishing” me for being so goddamned stupid and not paying attention) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/699 "2008-03-26T05:53:29Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] **Dio** , I appologize. [/quote] It’s cool. I’m glad I edited myself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360/700 "2008-03-26T05:54:49Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s cool. I’m glad I edited myself. [/QUOTE] Now I’m dying to know what you said! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-the-outrage-over-mom-24-7-sex-slave/442360.md?page=36)