# Where Is Your Soul? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042 "2003-10-17T16:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/41 "2003-10-18T13:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*[Don’t bet on it.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_030.html) > > I probably shouldn’t be posting here at all, since I disagreed with your first two sentences, am thoroughly unspiritual and unmystical, etc. > > Last I checked, I was made of, you know, atoms and stuff. > > Nonetheless, I’ll pipe up because nobody else has mentioned it yet: the thing that most makes you what you are is your BRAIN. Brains have gotten sucky treatment throughout the years. For whatever reason, people insist that your essence or whatever is found in a lump of muscle in your chest. Don’t ask me why. It’s all about the brain; it’s the higher brain that separates us from most of the animal kingdom, and rest of the brain keeps us alive. And in return, we give each other paper hearts on Valentine’s Day. Nowadays, when we’ve learned how amazing and complex the brain is, most of us prefer to think it’s some invisible floaty thing because the organ in your skull is too pedestrian. Talk about a thankless job. 😉 \*\* Your material is years old. Since Susan, much has been done to educate people on the near death experience. There are scientific studies indicating that consciousness is separate from the body and continues to live after the body dies. Just the reading of a large group of NDEs will show continuence of life after death. If some here wish to know about this material, below are some links to look through. This first link is a message board post that contains information on how to find the material. [http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=730#POST730](http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=730#POST730) You might want to look at [http://ndeweb.com/wildcard](http://ndeweb.com/wildcard) These links are a good place for those interested to start. Dr. Raymond Moody, Dr. Elizabith Keubler-Ross, Dr. Kenneth Ring, Dr. Melvin Morse, and many other NDE researchers, need to be read to find truth. The materialists seldom read material by experiencers, so this material has not found its way into the general public yet. But it will. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/42 "2003-10-18T13:38:16Z")
You also might want to realize that **lekatt’s** own experience is that he had a bad dream that he thinks is equivilent to a “near-death” experience. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/43 "2003-10-18T15:30:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*You also might want to realize that **lekatt’s** own experience is that he had a bad dream that he thinks is equivilent to a “near-death” experience. \*\* You seem to be addressing your remarks to the readers of this thread instead of the posts, as if you think they are not intelligent enough to make up their own minds. Typical materialist mistake. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/44 "2003-10-18T15:43:01Z")
No, I am addressing my remarks to a person that will use any excuse to promote his own website, no matter how weak the link to the subject at hand is. And I am telling this same person to _stop_ doing this. _Now_. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/45 "2003-10-18T16:01:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > **There are scientific studies indicating that consciousness is separate from the body and continues to live after the body dies.** Cite? > [@](#): > > \*\*This first link is a message board post that contains information on how to find the material. > > [http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=730#POST730\*\*](http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=730#POST730**) I have to ask, have you actually _read_ the information you’re linking to? Because all the study does is examine what factors are important in determining whether or not cardiac patients experience a NDE; It doesn’t address whether NDEs are real or not in the least. > [@](#): > > \*\*You might want to look at > > [http://ndeweb.com/wildcard\*\*](http://ndeweb.com/wildcard**) From that site: > [@](#): > > No matter how hard or long scientists look in the brain for things like consciousness, memory, mind, personality, dreams, NDEs, OBEs, etc. they will not be found. The brain is not the source of these events. It is quite obvious that damage to the brain can result in things like loss of memories and changes in personality. This would indicate that they _do_ originate in the brain. The whole “the brain as an antenna” concept has no proof, is unnecessary, and results in adding another layer of complexity to the situation without successfully explaining anything. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/46 "2003-10-18T18:04:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*No, I am addressing my remarks to a person that will use any excuse to promote his own website, no matter how weak the link to the subject at hand is. > And I am telling this same person to _stop_ doing this. > _Now_. \*\* Excuse me, I thought life after death, ndes, and studies of such had a great deal to do with the soul, or spiritual part of man. If you don’t like the scientific study I showed the link to, why don’t you write the doctors and complain. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/47 "2003-10-18T19:37:13Z")
Czarcasm My web site is where my research is stored. I access it in order to be brief and not need to type the same links over and over. When I post a link to my site on the Doppers board it usually results in somewhere between 25 to 40 hits in a week. There are usually over 1000 hits a week by others. I really am not after the number of hits. I do not sell anything on my site. You can’t buy 1 cent of anything and it costs me a lot of money to support it on social security. I keep the site going for educational and informational reasons. It is a help to those who have had spiritual experiences and want to talk about them and learn. It is also a help to those who wish to know more about near death experiences than the materialistic media is willing to show. Now, telling me I can’t access the research information on my site effectively bans me from participating in spiritual debates because the board doesn’t allow large amounts of quoted material either. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/48 "2003-10-18T21:11:04Z")
Joe Random The only thing really important about the study was: P. van Lommel went on to say: “Several theories have been proposed to explain NDE. We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest.” Now this doesn’t tell us what a NDE is, but it does tell us what it’s not. NDEs are not caused by the dying brain, or the dying body. So, with that out of the way, we can look for other causes, one of which is the possibility of the “soul” or “spirit”. The research indicates the consciousness and the body are separate entities. More studies are underway to verify this founding and should soon be heard from. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![sunrise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@sunrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunrise)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/49 "2003-10-18T21:13:43Z")
What shows up first in the embryo must be most important and therefore most likely to hold the soul. If the soul was in the brain and not the heart, how could the heart keep beating outside the body, cut off from the soul? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/50 "2003-10-18T21:30:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sunrise \* > \*\*If the soul was in the brain and not the heart, how could the heart keep beating outside the body, cut off from the soul? \*\* Why do you assume that something called a “soul” is necessary to cause a heart to beat? The electrochemical process by which a heart beats is well understood, and it does not require some vaguely-defined, non-corporeal entity. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/51 "2003-10-18T21:35:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*The only thing really important about the study was: > > **P. van Lommel went on to say: "Several theories have been proposed to explain NDE. We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest."** > > Now this doesn’t tell us what a NDE is, but it does tell us what it’s not.\*\* No, it actually doesn’t. They didn’t show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused NDEs, but they also didn’t show the aforementioned factors did _not_ cause of NDEs. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/52 "2003-10-18T21:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*The only thing really important about the study was: > > **P. van Lommel went on to say: "Several theories have been proposed to explain NDE. We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest."** > > Now this doesn’t tell us what a NDE is, but it does tell us what it’s not.\*\* No, it actually doesn’t. They didn’t show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused NDEs, but they also didn’t show the aforementioned factors did _not_ cause of NDEs. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/53 "2003-10-19T11:35:23Z")
The University of Virginia is collecting what they call “Veridical NDEs”. These are experiences where the individual dies and then comes back to life with information not known before their death. In the research study there was the one about the “false teeth” that surprised the doctor. The most famous Veridical NDE is Pam Reynolds surgery. This is the most documented of all, and what I believe started the current interest and research into NDEs. These experiences form a bridge between consciousness in the body and out of it. They show that life continues after the body is dead. Thus indicating the existence of a soul or spirit. Scientists in four universities are now studing this aspect of the NDE. I hope we will hear more from them soon. Wherever you find a group of experiences you will find these NDEs. There are hundreds of them and by sheer numbers bring meaning to the word “soul”. I think with this information you will have enough material to ponder. This is an example of a veridical NDE. [http://ndeweb.com/FAQz05.htm](http://ndeweb.com/FAQz05.htm) If I get banned for accessing my site, so be it. If not, I will be back. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/54 "2003-10-20T13:53:15Z")
**lekatt** lets get back in focus here. The question is WHERE IS YOUR SOUL LOCATED? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/55 "2003-10-20T14:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*Here is another thought. > > What about the people that claimed to have died on the operating table and they felt themselves floating above their bodies? I don’t know if that was their soul. \*\* Yes, of course, kind of got sidetracked. Having read hundreds of these accounts, the majority say they exited their body from the top of their head. This would indicate the soul resides in the brain, maybe. Or further down, not for sure. I have also read many spiritual accounts that say the soul surrounds the body and that’s the reason for the aura that some people can see. Love ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/56 "2003-10-20T14:52:48Z")
Hmmm now there is an intersting thought. Your soul is your aura. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/57 "2003-10-20T17:48:03Z")
I evicted mine, the freaking freeloader, could be anywhere now, probably pan-handling on a street-corner near you. ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/58 "2003-10-21T00:01:32Z")
So _if_ your soul and your aura are one and the same, the “quality” of those colours could be a reflection of the collection of thoughts and actions (a page in the Book of Life)? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/59 "2003-10-21T09:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Edlyn \* > \*\*So _if_ your soul and your aura are one and the same, the “quality” of those colours could be a reflection of the collection of thoughts and actions (a page in the Book of Life)? \*\* Yes, the aura is brighter in relation to spiritual growth. The colors reveal emotions and thoughts. Some people see these colors surrounding others all their life, it is just natural to them and they believe everyone sees them. At least until they get old enough to learn different. I can see auras only by meditation. I am not very good at it. Love ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042/60 "2003-10-21T09:49:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Having read hundreds of these accounts, the majority say they exited their body from the top of their head. This would indicate the soul resides in the brain, maybe. It is really a good ideqa to take the accounts of people under anasthesia at face value? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-is-your-soul/208042.md?page=4)