# where it is just not the main character **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205 "2017-02-19T03:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/21 "2017-02-19T17:58:18Z")
> [@Just1Lurk](#): > > I’m not sure I agree that Bob Newhart, or Jack Benny for that matter, can be considered straight men, at least not in the sense someone like Bud Abbott was. Nine times out of ten, the ultimate payoff to a bit wasn’t the wacky antics but their reaction to it. And sometimes they just didn’t set up the gag, their character was the gag. “I’m thinking, I’m thinking!” > > I guess I’m saying that if Newhart or Benny were straight men, then Abbott would be the gold standard and Newhart and Benny were platinum. Bob Newhart was such a brilliant straight man that even when he was alone on stage, the other guy got all the funny lines. Lots of his routines were of him talking on the phone and you had to fill-in what the other guy said. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/22 "2017-02-19T18:20:38Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Andy was supposed to be the central and POV character on _WKRP_. Came in here to mention this one. We’re re-watching the series and he has such an insignificant role in many episodes. The one we watched last night, where he and Mother Carlson are “dating”, is a rarity where he’s in a large part of the episode and he plays a key role. Our previously semi-binge watch comedy was _Mary Tyler Moore_. So I disagree strongly with the Mary vs. Rhoda on _MTM_ mentioned earlier. Rhoda was not all that interesting of a character. Generic sadsack. Mary had all sorts of characteristics which really drove the show. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/23 "2017-02-19T18:38:21Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Our previously semi-binge watch comedy was _Mary Tyler Moore_. > > So I disagree strongly with the Mary vs. Rhoda on _MTM_ mentioned earlier. Rhoda was not all that interesting of a character. Generic sadsack. Mary had all sorts of characteristics which really drove the show. Sue Ann. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/24 "2017-02-19T18:58:38Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Yeah, Armie Hammer’s Lone Ranger was a pretty bland character, next to that one guy who played Tonto. And I want to say that Léon was not as interesting as Mathilda, but that is not really true: the chemistry between the two of them is what made that movie. Bland? What about John Hart on the TV show? He made Jay Silverheels look like Laurence Olivier. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/25 "2017-02-19T19:17:49Z")
Christine Baranski’s character, Maryann Thorpe, was supposed to be the sidekick to Cybill Shepherd’s lead on **Cybill** , but ended up stealing just about every scene she was in. Baranski even racked up the cast’s only Emmy award. Supposedly this infuriated Shepherd (though she denies it in her autobiography). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/26 "2017-02-19T19:33:37Z")
It’s interesting. The concept of a relatively bland protagonist surrounded by much more colorful side characters seems to be so common in so many good shows, I’m beginning to think it’s a feature, not a bug. Maybe they’re necessary. Maybe if you removed the boring guy or girl at the center and only left the more “interesting” characters, the show wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/27 "2017-02-19T20:01:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s interesting. The concept of a relatively bland protagonist surrounded by much more colorful side characters seems to be so common in so many good shows, I’m beginning to think it’s a feature, not a bug. It actually seems to be a fairly common technique in fiction, I’ve found, though I don’t know if anyone’s formally codified or taught it—the idea that you make the main character at least somewhat bland, so it’s easier for the audience or reader to “project” themselves onto them, and thus connect with and become immersed in the story. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/28 "2017-02-19T20:36:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I _did_ say that. He had all the personality of a plate of poutine. Jonathan Archer was far more interesting than Kirk, and even he occupied the low spot in the character array (except, perhaps, for Mayweather). Peter Quincy Taggert was a more interesting character than Kirk. This reminds me: Sterling Archer is, to me, much less interesting than the rest of his coworkers. Pam, Cheryl, and the rest are much more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/29 "2017-02-19T23:06:24Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > It actually seems to be a fairly common technique in fiction, I’ve found, though I don’t know if anyone’s formally codified or taught it—the idea that you make the main character at least somewhat bland, so it’s easier for the audience or reader to “project” themselves onto them, and thus connect with and become immersed in the story. It’s that, absolutely. I think a story also needs an “anchor”, a stable point all the other characters can orbit. You need a reason for all of these very different people to talk to each other, and one way to do that is having one neutral character they all can interact with. Spock and Bones are more interesting that Kirk, but without the Captain, all they’d do is bicker. Kirk gets them to smooth their eccentricities enough to get along with him, and thus with each other. Or could you imagine George, Elaine and Kramer staying friends for more than five minutes without Jerry there to act as mediator? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/30 "2017-02-19T23:09:31Z")
Oliver Twist pretty much disappears from the novel that’s supposedly about him. Fagin, Sykes, Nancy, and even the Artful Dodger turn out to be much more interesting people. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/31 "2017-02-19T23:16:33Z")
Liz Lemon is plenty interesting. She just isnt a Sci-Fi character like Kenneth or Jane K. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/32 "2017-02-19T23:17:19Z")
I have to disagree with the premise here. Sure, some movies and TV shows have unintentionally bland and unengaging lead characters. But _Burn Notice_ isn’t one of them. Bruce Campbell is undeniably awesome, as always, but I really like the character of Michael Westen as well. I enjoyed all his voiceovers full of esoteric bits of spycraft and the different characters he played each week in order to insinuate himself into whichever group/gang he was trying to take down. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/33 "2017-02-19T23:18:25Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Of late, I have been subjected to reruns of a show called _Burn Notice_, about a spy left out in the cold. I have come to find the main character flat and uninteresting, as compared to his henchman, Sam Axe, who has all the personality in the show. It is a bit like Kirk v. Spock in Star Trek, or Shrek v. Donkey. > > Now, I know of stories told from the perspective of incidental characters – _Star Wars: a New Hope_ / _Hidden Fortress_ and _Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_, but those are deliberate efforts to shift the focus away from the protagonists, which is not what I am looking for. > > What other examples are there of a main character, around whom the story obviously revolves, who is just not that interesting, but there is a sidekick who steals your attention? Andy Devine as Jingles in the old Wild Bill Hickok series. Bruce Lee as Cato in the old Green Hornet series. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/34 "2017-02-19T23:27:24Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > This reminds me: Sterling Archer is, to me, much less interesting than the rest of his coworkers. Pam, Cheryl, and the rest are much more entertaining. I’m a big fan of the show and the Archer character, whom I do find rather interesting. However, Bob Belcher from Bob’s Burgers really isn’t that exciting IMHO - his kids (and to a lesser extent, his wife) are much more interesting and entertaining. I get the impression that’s deliberate, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/35 "2017-02-20T15:48:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s interesting. The concept of a relatively bland protagonist surrounded by much more colorful side characters seems to be so common in so many good shows, I’m beginning to think it’s a feature, not a bug. Maybe they’re necessary. Maybe if you removed the boring guy or girl at the center and only left the more “interesting” characters, the show wouldn’t work. I disagree with the premise that the boring character is necessary. As a counterexample, I offer the Japanese workplace sitcom anime “Working!”. Each cast member has their own strange quirk, and the comedy stems from how the interact. The way it makes it work without the bland protagonist is that the character who plays the part of the straight man changes from scene to scene. I think that it helps keep things fresher; it also rounds out the characters better and prevents the leads from being one-note characters. The downside is that there were times when a character was being particularly zany and I felt it was out of character for them. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/36 "2017-02-20T16:44:08Z")
The concept is not absolutely necessary, but it can be very effective in comedy. I’ve had several humorous stories published; nearly all had protagonists who were the (somewhat) calm center of the madness. In _Green Acres_, Oliver was usually the calm center of the madness (his only quirk was being overzealous wanting to be a farmer). Jed Clampett did the same in _The Beverly Hillbillies_. There were also Dick Benjamin and Paula Prentiss in _He and She_, where, despite being the title characters, they took a back seat to the others in the cast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/37 "2017-02-20T18:23:36Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Liz Lemon is plenty interesting. She just isnt a Sci-Fi character like Kenneth or Jane K. Yeah, but she’s also forever playing voice-of-reason to Tracy, plus she’s the go-to regular person in Jack Donaghy’s larger-than-life world – and so she kind of gets a _“she’s the comparatively normal one”_ momentum going – at which point it’s easy to have her play it straight in any given scene, which means her boyfriend du jour can play walking punchline or Carrie Fisher can play funhouse mirror. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/38 "2017-02-20T18:50:50Z")
How about the 70s sitcom “Alice”? Mention the show these days, and if someone remembers it it’s either for wisecracking waitress Flo (“Kiss My Grits!”) or oily diner owner Mel Sharples. In fact, I remember back then a number of people actually calling the show “Mel’s Diner”. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/39 "2017-02-20T19:00:13Z")
I notice most anime tend to have a boring/generic main character who plays the straight man (and also the audience identification character) and then surround them with the most zany and interesting supporting cast, and the humor comes from the boring main character having to deal with all of these weird people. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205/40 "2017-02-20T19:33:34Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > I have to disagree with the premise here. Sure, some movies and TV shows have unintentionally bland and unengaging lead characters. But _Burn Notice_ isn’t one of them. Bruce Campbell is undeniably awesome, as always, but I really like the character of Michael Westen as well. I enjoyed all his voiceovers full of esoteric bits of spycraft and the different characters he played each week in order to insinuate himself into whichever group/gang he was trying to take down. I don’t think this is what the OP intended, but I have to say one thing that makes Sam more appealing is that Michael is really unlikeable as a person. (especially if you consider any episode after Anson showed up (which I pretend don’t exist)). He has this blindered view of the world. He has no empathy. He’s selfish. He has a nearly sociopathic perspective. His upbringing damaged him, but his bosses didn’t care to fix him, just use him, like a tool. He’s the perfect guy to send on tough missions, but you wouldn’t want to invite him to the unit BBQ afterwards. He’s probably be happier cleaning his weapons anyway. Again, not blander, but unlikeable - Brenda Leigh Johnson. The woman is a narcissist, a user, a bully, a 6 year old passing as an adult. She never has to pay any penalty her behavior. Provenza is a much more likeably interesting character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-it-is-just-not-the-main-character/780205.md?page=3)