# Where might Trump go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300 "2021-01-12T00:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/41 "2021-01-12T15:10:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I acknowledge there’s very little chance Trump will end up in prison. But if he did he would be a very high-profile prisoner. He’d be placed in a supermax so he could be protected from other prisoners. In a low security prison filled with non-violent white-collar criminals, I doubt he’d get shivved or anything. He’d probably be their hero. But if he does go to prison, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/42 "2021-01-12T15:23:48Z")
Maybe Putin will buy him an island where he can be president of a Epstein-style honey trap. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/43 "2021-01-12T15:27:03Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > > assuming of course that Scotland will have him. > > Why would they? It would be incredibly unpopular to allow it. There are plenty of right wingers in the U.K., and a fair number of pro-Trumpers prior to recent events, but not of the looney tunes insurrectionist variety. He can’t just move there as s permanent resident without going through the same immigration process as anyone else. A silver lining from Brexit is that his wife’s Slovenian passport doesn’t get him in. Let him go to Scotland by all means. Iran has put out a request to Interpol to have him arrested, and IMHO Scotland would dutifully / cheerfully comply after doing the usual checks as long as Iran promises not to suspend him from a crane. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/44 "2021-01-12T15:44:07Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I clearly wrote “no extradition treaty with New York,” Still was confusing, but sure, _in his mind_ he would believe it to be a matter of NY vs. Scotland (and wouldn’t he be surprised to learn it’s actualy between US and UK and there _is_ one) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/45 "2021-01-12T16:07:32Z")
[It’s the place to be!](https://www.emmys.com/video/donald-trump-megan-mullally-green-acres-emmys-2006) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/46 "2021-01-12T19:23:18Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Still was confusing, but sure, _in his mind_ he would believe it to be a matter of NY vs. Scotland (and wouldn’t he be surprised to learn it’s actualy between US and UK and there _is_ one) The point, for anyone who is still confused, is that Trump will likely be pardoned of all except state charges, and no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges. That’s why it makes sense for him to flee to a foreign property instead of to Mar-A-Lago. And if we’re deciding which foreign property it would be, the strongest contender is always going to be a property in a white English-speaking country, which would be Trump International Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/47 "2021-01-12T19:26:02Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges. I want a cite on that. Due to the way the US legal system works, that would make virtually all “common” crimes committed in US soil, even murders, become unextraditable. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/48 "2021-01-12T19:34:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I want a cite on that. Regrettably enough, I am unable to prove a negative, so no cite will be forthcoming. You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/49 "2021-01-12T19:35:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > - No extradition treaty with New York > - Stronger libel/slander laws in the UK On the extradition point, it’s not Scotland that has an extradition treaty, it’s the UK, and that treaty is with the US. If there are reasonable grounds to believe an individual has committed a criminal offence in the US and is in the UK, then the US can apply to the UK for extradition. Doesn’t matter if it’s an offence under state law or federal law. The courts and the UK government then decide whether or not to extradite. The Government of Scotland isn’t involved in the decision. On the second point, there is no UK law of libel/slander. There is English/Welsh law of libel and slander, and Scots law. My understanding is that it is easier to show defamation under Scots law than under English/Welsh law, but I don’t have a good cite for that. Will keep poking around. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/50 "2021-01-12T19:43:42Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one. Here’s three cases from Canada where US citizens were extradited to the United States to face state murder charges. (The point in dispute in all three cases wasn’t whether they should be extradited, but whether the Canadian government should only extradite on an assurance that they would not face the death penalty.) > **[Kindler v. Canada (Minister of Justice) - SCC Cases](https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/785/index.do)** > > This page contains a form to search the Supreme Court of Canada case information database. You can search by the SCC 5-digit case number, by name or word in the style of cause, or by file number from the appeal court. > [@](#): > > **The appellant was found guilty of first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder and kidnapping in the State of Pennsylvania and the jury recommended the imposition of the death penalty. Before he was sentenced, the appellant escaped from prison and fled to Canada where he was arrested.** After a hearing, the extradition judge allowed the U.S.'s application for his extradition and committed the appellant to custody. **The Minister of Justice of Canada, after reviewing the material supplied by the appellant, ordered his extradition** pursuant to s. 25 of the _Extradition Act_ without seeking assurances from the U.S., under Art. 6 of the Extradition Treaty between the two countries, that the death penalty would not be imposed or, if imposed, not carried out. Both the Trial Division and the Court of Appeal of the Federal Court dismissed appellant’s application to review the Minister’s decision. This appeal is to determine whether the Minister’s decision to surrender the appellant to the U.S., without first seeking assurances that the death penalty will not be imposed or executed, violates the appellant’s rights under [s. 7](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec7) or [s. 12](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec12) of the _[Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en)_ . In addition, this Court stated the following two constitutional questions: whether s. 25 of the _Extradition Act_ infringes [s. 7](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec7) or [s. 12](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec12) of the _[Charter](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en)_ ; and, if so, whether such infringement is justified under [s. 1](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec1). > > _Held_ (Lamer C.J. and Sopinka and Cory JJ. dissenting): The appeal should be dismissed. **The extradition order is confirmed.** Section 25 of the _Extradition Act_ does not infringe [s. 7](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec7) or [s. 12](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en#!fragment/sec12) of the _[Charter](https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11-en)_ . See also a case where an accused was charged with murder under California law: > **[Reference Re Ng Extradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_Re_Ng_Extradition)** > > Reference Re Ng Extradition was a 1991 case in which the Supreme Court of Canada held that it was permissible to extradite Charles Ng, a fugitive, to the United States, where he was wanted on charges of several murders and might face the death penalty. The issue came before the court in the form of a reference from the federal government, which asked the court for an advisory opinion as to whether the extradition of a fugitive threatened with execution would violate the Canadian Charter of Along... See also US v Burns, where two individuals charged with murder under Washington state law were extradited, but in that case only on condition that the United States give assurances that they would not face the death penaltyl: > **[United States v Burns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns)** > > United States v Burns 1 S.C.R. 283, 2001 SCC 7, was a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada that found that extradition of individuals to countries in which they may face the death penalty is a breach of fundamental justice under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The decision reached that conclusion by a discussion of evidence regarding the arbitrary nature of execution although the Court did not go so far as to say that execution was also unconstitutional under s The c... ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/51 "2021-01-12T19:51:55Z")
> **[Ira Einhorn | Extradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn#Extradition)** > > In 1997, Einhorn was arrested in Champagne-Mouton, France, where he had been living under the name "Eugène Mallon". The extradition process, however, proved more complex than initially envisioned. Under the extradition treaty between France and the United States, either country may refuse extradition under certain circumstances, and Einhorn used multiple avenues to avoid extradition. > Although Einhorn was not sentenced to death, his defense attorneys argued that he would face the death penalty if... Returned to the US to face murder charges in Pennsylvania courts. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/52 "2021-01-12T19:53:25Z")
And here’s the summary of the defition of “extraditble offence” in the [US UK Extradition Treaty](https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/108th-congress/23/document-text): > [@](#): > > Article 2 concerns extraditable offenses. Article 2(1) defines an offense as extraditable if the conduct on which the offense is based is punishable under the laws in both States by deprivation of liberty for a period of one year or more or by a more severe penalty. It’s based solely on the punishment, not whether it’s a state or federal offence. ---
**Author:** ![mheine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@mheine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mheine)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/53 "2021-01-12T22:04:30Z")
I think you’re right, but I hope he goes to jail first. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/54 "2021-01-12T22:04:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The point, for anyone who is still confused, is that Trump will likely be pardoned of all except state charges, and no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges. I believe Joe Biden said several weeks ago that he won’t be pardoning Trump. Probably even less so now. The guy is literally a traitor. Why wouldn’t Scotland extradite him to face State level charges? As long as the death penalty is off the table, there will be no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/55 "2021-01-12T22:48:22Z")
To quote the late great Sean Connery from the movie, ‘[Diamolds are Forever](http://www.dailywav.com/sites/default/files/wavs/welcome2hell.mp3)’… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/56 "2021-01-13T03:20:33Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Iran has put out a request to Interpol to have him arrested, and IMHO Scotland would dutifully / cheerfully comply after doing the usual checks as long as Iran promises not to suspend him from a crane. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Why wouldn’t Scotland extradite him to face State level charges? It’s not Scotland’s decision. Extradition is a matter for the UK government. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/57 "2021-01-13T05:12:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one. This happens literally every week. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Here’s a link to someone who was [extradited from Australia to California](https://abc7.com/fugitive-extradited-from-australia-3-years-after-whittier-hit-and-run/7459463/) regarding a hit-and-run case. The Department of Justice has an entire office who’s job is to prepare extradition process pursuant to international treaties, and a significant chunk of those are on behalf of state governments. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/58 "2021-01-13T05:26:42Z")
I envision a classy stateroom on the [USS Pueblo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_%28AGER-2%29). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/59 "2021-01-13T12:47:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Returned to the US to face murder charges in Pennsylvania courts. Fair enough. Ignorance fought, I have to be wrong now and then. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300/60 "2021-01-13T12:50:49Z")
Some place that doesn’t have an extradition agreement with the United States? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-might-trump-go/930300.md?page=4)