# Where no meal has gone before (combos no one but you are eating) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [February 27, 2024, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146 "2024-02-27T05:14:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/21 "2024-02-27T17:13:35Z")
When I make baked beans from scratch, I stir in a spoonful or two of Colman’s dry mustard powder. It makes the tomato–molasses sauce more savory. When I was living in Czechoslovakia, Friday nights were for having a dark beer, a hunk of fried cheese, and chips (thick French fries) covered in tartar sauce at a place called the Black Horse. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/22 "2024-02-27T18:58:28Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > …Soy sauce is yummy! Ain’t that the truth! - now, more a snack than a meal: if I make, say, baba ganoush, you have to roast the eggplants and scrape all of the flesh out to make the dip. Throw the skins away - me? Nope, they get doused in soy as a special treat. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Lots of people add a condiment to a simple cheddar sandwich: pickle, chutney, mayonnaise, chilli jam, what have you… [Schug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhug) works too. j ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/23 "2024-02-27T19:31:29Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > For example, last night I had a tasty meal of sautéed beet greens and mushrooms that I enveloped in a burrito wrap along with jackfruit seed “hummus”. I’m willing to bet no one has done THAT before. (It was delicious, incidentally; jackfruit seeds make an ethereal dip that isn’t technically hummus as it contains no chickpeas, but it’s quite wonderful.) Speaking of hummus (the chickpea hummus, not the jackfruit variety, but jackfruit hummus may work well in this application too) this isn’t _ **that** _ weird of a combo, but one time I had some hummus, but was fresh out of pita bread. So I tried scooping up the hummus with tortilla chips. Delicious! I turned Mrs. Solost on to hummus and tortilla chips, and it’s become kind of a regular snack with us. As I said, it’s really not that weird, since hummus is kind of similar both in flavor and texture to refried beans, which are no stranger to getting paired with tortilla chips. But it’s maybe not something you’d think of trying together. > [@terentii](#): > > I grabbed a bottle of soy sauce instead of Worcestershire sauce yesterday when I was making a cottage pie. I didn’t notice the mistake until after I had applied a liberal amount of the former. Since I was not inclined to toss out the entire pan full of ingredients, I piled on the potato-and-cheese topping and stuck the mess in the oven. Surprisingly, it tasted just fine when it finished baking! Yep, I use soy sauce and fish sauce in non-Asian meals very often for the umami boost. I think soy sauce works even better than Worchestershire in many things, since that WS flavor is kind of overpowering if you’re not careful. Another substitute I do with Shepard’s / Cottage pie (Shepard’s is lamb, and cottage is beef, right?)-- once I had a hankering for it, but didn’t have carrots or peas on hand, and I really don’t like peas anyway. So I diced up some green and red bell peppers in their place. Outstanding! I only use bell peppers when I make it at home now. Not sure what to call it, though. O’Brien’s Pie, after potatoes O’Brien? ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/24 "2024-02-27T19:39:05Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Speaking of hummus (the chickpea hummus, not the jackfruit variety, but jackfruit hummus may work well in this application too) this isn’t _ **that** _ weird of a combo, but one time I had some hummus, but was fresh out of pita bread. So I tried scooping up the hummus with tortilla chips. Delicious! I turned Mrs. Solost on to hummus and tortilla chips, and it’s become kind of a regular snack with us. As I said, it’s really not that weird, since hummus is kind of similar both in flavor and texture to refried beans, which are no stranger to getting paired with tortilla chips. But it’s maybe not something you’d think of trying together. DH and I frequently do that. Works well, we think. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/25 "2024-02-27T20:33:37Z")
Yes, Shepherd’s Pie is made with lamb, Cottage Pie is made with beef. I’m pretty sure, though, that you could make a vegetarian/vegan pie by substituting your favorite veg for the meat and tofu for dairy cheese if you’re so inclined. I’ve had vegetarian lasagne while a guest at someone’s home, and it was delicious. If you want to use peppers and meat, I can recommend making a Turkish-style casserole with either beef or lamb, eggplant, and lots of cumin. I had that over rice three times last week. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/26 "2024-02-27T21:11:34Z")
I regularly put fresh mint into my bolognese sauce. It’s great. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/27 "2024-02-27T21:25:08Z")
You’re not the only one. Mint is a traditional Mediterranean seasoning as is it’s cousin oregano. I think oregano is overused in many Italian dishes and mint should be used in it’s place or additionally more. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/28 "2024-02-27T21:42:35Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > [Schug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhug) works too Ooh, tasty! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/29 "2024-02-27T21:53:18Z")
I used to be a big fan of bacon and peanutbutter. Then, I began keeping kosher. I was a big fan of sizzle lean (or other beef bacon substitute) and peanutbutter. Then, I became allergic to beef. I haven’t gotten around to trying turkey bacon and peanutbutter yet. I know Elvis among others was of a fan of salty fried meat and pb. I always put mustard, ketchup and honey in my baked beans. I tried mixing some honey in seltzer. Delicious! A few years back I invented Swedish Fish salad. I started a thread on it. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/30 "2024-02-27T22:02:58Z")
I’m a fan of peanut butter and pancake syrup sandwiches. And I cannot overemphasize exactly how good it tastes to take the noodles out of a bowl of (hot) soup, spoon them onto Munch-O’s, and chowing down. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/31 "2024-02-27T22:07:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Yes, Shepherd’s Pie is made with lamb, Cottage Pie is made with beef. That is the current taxonomic split for those two dishes, but it doesn’t seem to have always been. I was researching this about a month ago (and I had done research on this a few years as well). In the 19th century cookbooks I’ve found recipes for shepherd’s pie and cottage pie (and it was also named “hunter’s pie” in one of the cookbooks), there was generally a call for any kind of meat. And it was exclusively cold meat. The dish seems to have evolved as a way of using up the last night’s leftovers. You would put in your leftover meat, whatever veggies you got, and top it with mashed potatoes. For example, this is from _Lessons In Cookery: Hand-book of the national training school for cookery (South Kensington, London)_, 1879: > [@](#): > > To make " Shepherd’s Pie " : > > 1. Take one and a half pound of potatoes, wash them, and boil them as described {see " Vegetables," Lesson No. 1). > > N. B. — This quantity of potato will cover a quart pie-dish. N. B. — Any remains of cold potatoes should be used, instead of boiling fresh ones. > > […] > > 1. **Take any scraps of cold meat** , cut them in small pieces, and put them in a pie-dish in layers. Bolding mine. Other cites: _Mr’s Roundell’s Practical Cookery Book_ by Mrs. Roundell (Julia Anne Elizabeth) 1898, says “the pie can be made of any sort of cold cooked meat, or of several sorts.” _The Practice of Cookery and Pastry_ by Mrs. Williamson, 1849: “take cold dressed meat of any kind” I’ve also found recipes for “cottage pie” in the 19th century that specifically call for “Australian Mutton.” There is even one that suggests chicken as the meat for cottage pie. (I would have to re-dig up those sources, though.) I can’t find this one anymore, but years ago when I researched this, I seem to recall one source calling the difference between shepherd’s pie and cottage pie as shepherd’s pie is topped with mashed potato, and cottage pie is topped with “shingles” of sliced potatoes, to resemble a cottage, I guess. I have not found any other cookbook, though, in which cottage pie is topped with this style of potato. But, yes, the modern distinction is shepherd=lamb; cottage=beef. But so many restaurants here in the US use beef for shepherd’s pie and call it that that I feel the need to defend them. And it’s usually UK folk that go “no! that isn’t shepherd’s pie you dumb American!” when, in actually, English cookbooks originally didn’t seem to care a whit what meat it was made of. I say it’s okay to call shepherd’s pie made with beef “shepherd’s pie” on this side of the pond. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/32 "2024-02-27T22:28:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I know I’m not the only one who puts mustard on fries but the reaction of people to seeing me do it means it’s pretty rare. Pretty much any condiment can go with French fries. I do use mustard from time to time. I really like a vinegary hot sauce like Tabasco. Mayo is fine, but it’s a bit too much fat for me. BBQ sauce, yes please. Curry sauce. Yes. Yeah, just pretty much anything. I’m not sure I’ve tried Worcetershire, but in my head that sounds pretty good, too. And, of course, I love malt vinegar. > [@TriPolar](#): > > You’re not the only one. Mint is a traditional Mediterranean seasoning as is it’s cousin oregano. I think oregano is overused in many Italian dishes and mint should be used in it’s place or additionally more. Now that one is odd to me. I definitely don’t want mint in Italian dishes. I love it in Middle Eastern dishes, and I prefer it as a savory herb to a sweet one, but the idea of it on Italian food just sounds strange to me. I also rarely use oregano in Italian food (I’m more likely to use fresh basil; certainly my bolognese doesn’t have any oregano or even basil for that matter) but it is good used sparingly. I don’t remember Italian food in Italy being particularly heavy on oregano. I think that’s more an Italian-American thing from Southern Italy/Sicily (which I did not visit.) Marjoram is also quite nice in restrained amounts in certain Italian dishes. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/33 "2024-02-27T22:38:11Z")
As I indicated above, almost anything can go into a pie. If you have leftovers that need to be used up, so much the better. In one of the _ **Poldark** _ novels, Graham talks about a “cold game pie,” which I’ve always pictured as venison, rabbit, pigeon, or some other blend of chopped meats in aspic, all inside a crust of baked dough. There are also lots of variations of Coddle. One I’ve made (“Dublin Coddle”) had sliced potatoes, onions, bacon, and ham, all layered and baked in a covered pan. A similar dish you’re likely to be served in a cheap Russian restaurant is a chunk of beef baked inside a pot with potatoes and sour cream. When I was a student, my classmates and I called it “Hunk o’ Meat.” ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/34 "2024-02-27T22:59:38Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > One I’ve made (“Dublin Coddle”) had sliced potatoes, onions, bacon, and ham, all layered and baked in a covered pan. I guess I know what I’m making for next week’s suppers 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/35 "2024-02-27T23:07:11Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > There are also lots of variations of Coddle. One I’ve made (“Dublin Coddle”) had sliced potatoes, onions, bacon, and ham, all layered and baked in a covered pan. That sounds a bit like Hungarian _rakott krumpli_ (layered potatoes), though it looks a bit different from pictures. Hungarian version is made fresh with layers of potato, sliced hardboiled eggs, smoked sausage, bacon, sour cream, butter. A belly-warming fall/winter casserole! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/36 "2024-02-28T00:30:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Now that one is odd to me. I definitely don’t want mint in Italian dishes. You could give it a try. I think it blends well with other spices, and mellows the acidity of tomatoes. I think it would bother me in a cream sauce. I can’t say much about authenticity, I’ve seen rare references in cookbooks, but otherwise have to go on the word of my in-laws. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/37 "2024-02-28T00:37:26Z")
I mean, I do like it in other meat stews with tomato, so I’m not a total stranger to it. I sometimes make this Georgian (as in the country) chicken stew called chakhokhbili, and I use mint, cilantro, tarragon, dill, parsley, and sometimes summer savory if I happen to be growing it, and it is a tomato-based liquid it stews in; and it goes great there. I guess I just don’t have it in my mind connected to Italian cuisine (though I would not be the least bit surprised if historically it was used or if there are patches of regional Italian cuisines that use it in this manner.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/38 "2024-02-28T00:44:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Pretty much any condiment can go with French fries. Horseradish–creamy or not–is in my French fry rotation. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/39 "2024-02-28T00:46:13Z")
> [@Dogginit](#): > > > [@terentii](#): > > > > One I’ve made (“Dublin Coddle”) had sliced potatoes, onions, bacon, and ham, all layered and baked in a covered pan. > > I guess I know what I’m making for next week’s suppers 😃 If you make this, don’t use standard American (streaky) bacon. It’s too fatty. Get some rashers of lean Irish or Scottish bacon. The only seasonings you’ll need are salt, pepper, and some chopped fresh parsley. This should be eaten with hot Irish soda bread and washed down with Guinness. (You can also try baking the meat and veg in some of the stout. Yum!) ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146/40 "2024-02-28T00:55:45Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Dee-licious! To this day, when I have shepherd’s pie, it’s a choice of Worcestershire sauce or soy sauce Damn, and I just had some the other day. By the way, I tried Gordon Ramsay’s frozen shepherd’s pie. Don’t bother. What a disappointment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-no-meal-has-gone-before-combos-no-one-but-you-are-eating/998146.md?page=3)