# Where the fuck are \*my\* tax incentives?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694 "2011-09-26T20:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/41 "2011-09-27T22:17:32Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Really? > > You make products in your living room with an internet connection? > You grow food? > You produce power and energy? > > Get over yourself. If your skills and work product are in such demand, why they hell can’t you afford your own health insurance? > > ETA: You sound more like a victim than a skilled entrepeneur. I was speaking of office/desk jobs. And I’m by no means a “skilled” entrepeneur, but I’m skilled at what I do do. I can afford health insurance, it’d just be nice if it actually _covered_ anything. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/42 "2011-09-27T22:45:12Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I was speaking of office/desk jobs. > > And I’m by no means a “skilled” entrepeneur, but I’m skilled at what I do do. I can afford health insurance, it’d just be nice if it actually _covered_ anything. :rolleyes: You’re such a dreamer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/43 "2011-09-27T22:54:17Z")
And another thing, it’s not like you just wake up one day and say, “Hey! I think I’ll be an entrepreneur because look at my mad skillz, yo!” It’s a huge risk. Eventually, there might come a day where I’ll have to throw in the towel, and get a salary position at some studio somewhere, or stocking shelves. I weigh it every fucking day. That day is not today, but it certainly could be tomorrow. For those employed as well. Being skilled at something doesn’t guarantee you success. And success doesn’t necessarily equate to skill. There’s an imbalance; the economy is strongly canting toward collapse, and we’re trying to fix it by repairing the roof, while the foundation sinks? And it’s one thing to afford health insurance as a sole-proprieter, and quite another to afford the health _care,_ insurance or not. Major reform is what’s needed. Not band-aids. I know I’m mostly preaching to the choir here, but a guy like me is not in a position to affect much change, other than rattle my own cage. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/44 "2011-09-27T22:56:55Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’re such a dreamer. 🙂 I know, _right?!_ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/45 "2011-09-27T23:00:43Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > And another thing, it’s not like you just wake up one day and say, “Hey! I think I’ll be an entrepreneur because look at my mad skillz, yo!” > > It’s a huge risk. Eventually, there might come a day where I’ll have to throw in the towel, and get a salary position at some studio somewhere, or stocking shelves. I weigh it every fucking day. That day is not today, but it certainly could be tomorrow. For those employed as well. Being skilled at something doesn’t guarantee you success. And success doesn’t necessarily equate to skill. > > There’s an imbalance; the economy is strongly canting toward collapse, and we’re trying to fix it by repairing the roof, while the foundation sinks? > > And it’s one thing to afford health insurance as a sole-proprieter, and quite another to afford the health _care,_ insurance or not. > > Major reform is what’s needed. Not band-aids. I know I’m mostly preaching to the choir here, but a guy like me is not in a position to affect much change, other than rattle my own cage. > > :shrug: I hear you. But the problem I have with your rant is that you don’t seem to have a problem with “tax incentives”, you just have a problem with who is awarded tax incentives. Yes, major reform is needed. But the major reform that is needed is eliminating federal tax incentives period. Eliminating the majority of federal taxes. Destroying the omnipresence of the federal government. Getting the government out of the freaking way. Without that, changing the direction of “tax incentives” here and there is just more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/46 "2011-09-27T23:09:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I hear you. But the problem I have with your rant is that you don’t seem to have a problem with “tax incentives”, you just have a problem with who is awarded tax incentives. > > Yes, major reform is needed. But the major reform that is needed is eliminating federal tax incentives period. Eliminating the majority of federal taxes. Destroying the omnipresence of the federal government. Getting the government out of the freaking way. > > Without that, changing the direction of “tax incentives” here and there is just more of the same. I will certainly concede to your point. Whatever the solution, it should happen fast, but it won’t. To backpedal a bit, the OP title has mostly to do with my bitterness about tax incentives completely fucking up my income for 2011. I believe there’s an article coming out soon about it in Variety Magazine, and if/when it does, I’ll link to it. It almost brought me to financial ruin, due to a perfect storm of circumstance. My only recourse was to boot-strap myself out of the mire. Months and months of just shoveling sand without rest or relief. I know I’m not the only one here. But damn, if the stress and load didn’t just about kill me. And the thing is, if you really knew me, I’m not a complaining sort. I buck up, dig in my heels, and solve my problems. But dear god, I do not want to go through another 2011 if I can ever help it again. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/47 "2011-09-27T23:18:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I will certainly concede to your point. Whatever the solution, it should happen fast, but it won’t. > > To backpedal a bit, the OP title has mostly to do with my bitterness about tax incentives completely fucking up my income for 2011. I believe there’s an article coming out soon about it in Variety Magazine, and if/when it does, I’ll link to it. > > It almost brought me to financial ruin, due to a perfect storm of circumstance. My only recourse was to boot-strap myself out of the mire. Months and months of just shoveling sand without rest or relief. I know I’m not the only one here. But damn, if the stress and load didn’t just about kill me. And the thing is, if you really knew me, I’m not a complaining sort. I buck up, dig in my heels, and solve my problems. But dear god, I do not want to go through another 2011 if I can ever help it again. No, the reforms needed definitely will not happen fast. In fact, I suspect that without a major collapse of the economy they won’t happen at all. And with such a collapse all bets are off on the outcome. In truth, I pretty much gave up on this country. We’re past the inflection point and are sliding inexorably downward (with half the country cheering because they think the rainbows and unicorns “we’re all equal and the government will make sure of it” future is something they will like). As soon as I convince my wife, I can leave and settle in some quiet place where I don’t know who the politicians are, what the politics are, and won’t care. Like NZ. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/48 "2011-09-27T23:21:35Z")
I can’t tell you how many times over the summer I told my wife to help pack our stuff, 'cuz we’re _“GOING OFF THE GRID!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/49 "2011-09-27T23:23:18Z")
Can I hope that you are working with a good accountant? Write off your vehicle. Hell, go buy a used pick-up truck and take accelerated depreciation. You can almost write off the entire purchase price of a truck. Write off your home office. Write off any interest on your credit cards that are associated with your business. Write off phone, internet and business magazine subscriptions. Write off any expenses of going INTO business. Write off any training or education you take. Write off all software and hardware that you buy. Write of 50% of all meals that you take with anyone remotely associated with your business. Write off all travel, as long as you do some business along the way. This is just off of the top of my head - I have done independent work whenever between jobs, and by the time I am done I rarely “make” more than a dollar or two - everything else has been written off against expenses. You have to rethink how you live to make sure that everything that CAN be written off IS written off. This is why I mentioned a used pick-up truck - they are often the cheapest way to get a fully depreciable vehicle into your name. I can’t help with ideas on health care, other than look for a co-op depending on where you live. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/50 "2011-09-27T23:31:01Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > The corporate model is a relic. Then why aren’t you kicking it’s butt? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/51 "2011-09-27T23:37:58Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Can I hope that you are working with a good accountant? I’m not a good judge of what makes a good CPA, but our current one seems fairly educated, affable, resourceful and looking for clever (legit) ways to help. > [@](#): > > Write off your vehicle. Hell, go buy a used pick-up truck and take accelerated depreciation. You can almost write off the entire purchase price of a truck. Done. Although, now that I’m not working on-site anymore, I don’t drive much. Then we weren’t able to pay my bills on time, and accrued 2 months in late fees. We caught up on the balance, but not the late fees, so they repo’d it without warning. I got it back right away, but total financial damage: ~$1000. Now I share my car with a close by neighbor who’s become a good friend to me and my wife. She needed a car, and I don’t use it much (we have 2 vehicles), so she pays most of the monthly payment, and I continue to cover the insurance. > [@](#): > > Write off your home office. Done. > [@](#): > > Write off any interest on your credit cards that are associated with your business. > > Write off phone, internet and business magazine subscriptions. > > Write off any expenses of going INTO business. > > Write off any training or education you take. > > Write off all software and hardware that you buy. Done, done, done, done and done. (although I’m all self-taught, and any new learning/education I just mine YouTube for tutorials) > [@](#): > > Write of 50% of all meals that you take with anyone remotely associated with your business. This is almost zero, so N/A. > [@](#): > > Write off all travel, as long as you do some business along the way. Yeppers. Not much now, but plenty during the 1Q of 2011. > [@](#): > > This is just off of the top of my head - I have done independent work whenever between jobs, and by the time I am done I rarely “make” more than a dollar or two - everything else has been written off against expenses. You have to rethink how you live to make sure that everything that CAN be written off IS written off. This is why I mentioned a used pick-up truck - they are often the cheapest way to get a fully depreciable vehicle into your name. > > I can’t help with ideas on health care, other than look for a co-op depending on where you live. Another trick I’ve learned is to _make sure_ I continue to upgrade my hardware and software. It’s stuff that is my bread and butter, and improvements in processing speed and workflow increases my productivity dramatically… so this usually accounts for the bigger portions of my write-offs. But great general advice to anyone thinking or about to break into self-employment. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/52 "2011-09-27T23:38:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In truth, I pretty much gave up on this country. We’re past the inflection point and are sliding inexorably downward (with half the country cheering because they think the rainbows and unicorns “we’re all equal and the government will make sure of it” future is something they will like). You’re fucking hilarious. Let me know when you move out, Mr. Baldwin. Of course, he can afford it. Can you? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/53 "2011-09-27T23:41:59Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > You’re fucking hilarious. > > Let me know when you move out, Mr. Baldwin. Of course, he can afford it. Can you? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/54 "2011-09-28T00:16:48Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Then why aren’t you kicking it’s butt? Because! Its head is in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/55 "2011-09-28T00:35:27Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > And it’s one thing to afford health insurance as a sole-proprieter, and quite another to afford the health _care,_ insurance or not. Really? How much are you paying for it? The NY Times just reported that the average cost of health care under a group plan for a family is [$15K/year](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/business/health-insurance-costs-rise-sharply-this-year-study-shows.html?hp). Now, I’m not saying that’s cheap, nor am I saying that we don’t need reform. But I gotta ask, are you looking at plans that cost that much? From my side, Mr. Athena and I are covered under a plan that runs us about $12K/year. That’s premiums and deductible together, as we max out the deductible every year. I’m diabetic, so that’s a pre-existing condition that they know about and pushes us into the more expensive premium range (and wouldn’t have given me the policy for had I been diagnosed before I bought the policy. I’m stuck with this policy now that the diagnosis is on my record.) I don’t like the cost, but I can’t really complain about the coverage. They cover everything. They’ve denied nothing, even a very expensive week-long seminar with a specialist. Maybe I just got lucky (though it doesn’t seem that way when I pay the bills) but I really can’t complain about the insurance itself. Just the costs… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/56 "2011-09-28T00:45:05Z")
Last time we checked, BCBS would cost us about $1200 a month, with a $1500 deductible per-person, with 80/20 coverage. If we wanted 100% coverage, we’d be paying about 1500/1600 a month. My wife and I are around 39 years old, and we have two kids, 13 and 9. No company we’ve looked into so far simply _will not_ cover mental health unless it’s through a group plan. So we have to pay that completely out of pocket, including prescriptions. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/57 "2011-09-28T00:51:32Z")
Missed the edit window: …And, of course my wife and I have some pre-existing conditions. Kidney stones for myself, and more lady-part issues with my wife. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/58 "2011-09-28T23:21:57Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > And another thing, it’s not like you just wake up one day and say, “Hey! I think I’ll be an entrepreneur because look at my mad skillz, yo!” > > It’s a huge risk. Of course it is and while there are certainly problems with our nation’s tax system, as well as how it treats businesses, the reality is that one thing that is the strongest way to protect an entrepreneur from that insane risk is to incorporate. Aside from the direct tax incentive, there are oodles of reasons for a person to incorporate so the risk they are taking doesn’t end in complete financial ruin for their family. And I’ll tell you, that’s where I’m personally torn on this whole reform issue. One side of me is like you- just utterly horrified by what some of these major corporations can and do get away with. Simultaneously, though, I can’t help but wonder how damaging changing the corporate structure will be on small businesses. After all, corporations aren’t just all the Microsofts and Chevrons of the world- there are far more places like Bob’s Plumbing, Inc. and Sarah’s Hair Salon, Inc. that are much more likely to be completely ruined from a small shift that might not even take a drop from the bucket of the major corporations. I’m babbling, but that’s just something I’ve been a bit torn about while watching the news on this whole reform issue. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/59 "2011-10-08T18:41:21Z")
I said I’d provide a link when the article was out on \*\*Variety’s website. \*\*[Here’s it is.](http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118044078) > [@Variety: Disincentives for Hollywood](#): > > While it may seem strange, it is possible to receive an incentive check on a project that has not been completed. For this to happen, though, the producer must demonstrate through an audit that the money for the project has been spent in Michigan. Also, projects must be pre-approved for the incentives program, and before they begin work, they must usually show a concrete plan for completion and distribution. However, any wages paid out to those who are still owed money will not be eligible for the incentive program since those wages will have been paid after the final incentive paperwork has been filed. I declined to be interviewed, but I am, of course, among those that didn’t get paid (~$7,500), and taking a year away from my usual dozen or so clients caused them to move on or dry up. I was VFX Creative Director there, and as you can see, it’s a very complicated issue. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694/60 "2011-10-08T18:48:06Z")
There’s also [this](http://www.thedailypoint.com/usa/film-producer-arrested-for-knife-in-carry-on-at-florida-airport-12938.html)… had I been traveling with Phillipe, I’m sure it would’ve been me who was arrested. Such were his ways. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-my-tax-incentives/597694.md?page=2)