# Where the fuck are the people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529 "2009-09-10T08:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/41 "2009-09-11T05:29:00Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > It is not about one poor guy and his troubles. Yeah, he is getting a shit life end. > > If your on the sick side, the healthy people should pay everything they have to save you. Hu huh !!! > > If you are on the healthy side, you would rather feed your kids than take care of the sick side since you can’t really afford to do both. > > We in this country have bought into the silly notion that any one life is worth any amount of $$$ to save. It just ain’t so. > > If you all felt that way for real, you would never break a driving law again, would wear helmets in your car every time and would voluntarily have been taking a few dollars every payday for health protection over and above what others do. You don’t do that. You want for all to support you when you get unlucky or stupid. > > The world is not round, > It is not fair, > It is just round. > > Just looking at everything going on, I wonder how you all can be for wild spending of $$$ that does not exist. Those kids and grand kids of yours are not going to thank you for what you have left them with. > > ALL of this ‘We humans deserve’ BS is just a form of greed. We deserve nothing and need to work for what we do get. But no, we have aken the road of play now and make the future try to pay for it. It can not go on and now I am beginning to fear I will be around for the crash. Was kinda wanting my grand kids to have to deal with it but we have gotten way too greedy and lazy and the hand basket is really sliding along now. Well fuck. Looks like I’m just completely worthless and should be put out into the street to starve to death. Could I possibly contribute something to the world once my health is under control and I’m able to be functional again? Or even contribute enough to at least a few individual people that they feel I’m worth keeping around even if I never truly get well? I guess we’ll never know, since according to you, I should just go off myself and spare the world the expense of keeping me alive in the meantime. Have any of your loved ones ever become life-threateningly, expensively ill? I can only assume you just let them die without medical intervention because of the expense involved, unless you were wealthy enough to foot the entire bill yourself. Hope you’ve got enough money set aside to keep those grandkids alive. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/42 "2009-09-11T05:46:18Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Pelosi, Reid \*et al \*couldn’t decide to piss on each other if thier legs were on fire. Oh man, you got that right. Democrats in Congress need a couple of George Pattons, and fuckit, let 'em slap around the troops some. But instead, they have Mr. Rogers and Mary Richards. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/43 "2009-09-11T06:02:56Z")
Where the fuck are the people? Try the Town Halls. Or is it only grassroots democracy when Democrats do it? ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/44 "2009-09-11T07:45:36Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > ALL of this ‘We humans deserve’ BS is just a form of greed. We deserve nothing and need to work for what we do get. . > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Many people did not watch the speech (such as me) because they don’t want to spend one minute listening to a statist talk. **GusNSpot, Crafter Man, aldiboronti,** and any other posters in this thread who are opposed to healthcare reform, may I ask a question? Do you have health insurance? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/45 "2009-09-11T07:54:22Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > So Obama’s putting it all on the line, telling it like it is, trying to achieve what no one has in history, and where is the support of the people he’s trying to help - the tens of millions who will benefit from change, the people who even voted for him? > > \ > > These people need to be jostled with wheelchairs… Well, I’m takin’ my powerchair down to the Vern Buchanan townhall this evening. Not planning on jostling anyone, though (unless it’s in self-defense:p). I’ve been educating myself on healthcare reform for a while now, but I won’t scream and holler or waste time and energy trying to talk to anyone, left or right, who isn’t interested in learning something and from whom I can learn something. The exception is the letters I’ve written to politicians. If the townhall I’m attending is a question and answer deal, I have my question all ready. I’m going to ask Buchanan and whatever other politicians might be there (if any) to promise that, if healthcare reform fails to pass, will they please introduce and support a bill to make suicide legal. It’s not right to tell people who are sick and can’t afford healthcare that they can’t put themselves out of their own misery, and protect their families from losing their home and all their assets to pay for treatments that private insurance won’t pay for. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/46 "2009-09-11T09:57:30Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > They only polled people who watched the speech. Many people did not watch the speech (such as me) because they don’t want to spend one minute listening to a statist talk. So the poll is very biased. You’ve been bought with bogus arguments pandering to your parochialism, as well as your own inflated insurance costs - all those misery-based profits going to convince you it’s unAmerican not to be mugged every month by the longest running con trick in the history of universal suffrage. It’s kind of beautiful to watch. Did you fall for the whole Saddam/9/11 spiel as well – sure you did. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/47 "2009-09-11T22:59:39Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > In my opinion reform has stalled to date because Obama has failed to make a specific proposal which important constituents could form a specific opinion on. Generally, I support some type of healthcare reform but there are a lot of versions floating through Congress that could prove very detrimental to my interests, so I’m not going to expend enormous effort carrying on about the drastic need for healthcare reform before the president has presented me with a specific proposal which explains how it will work. > > This lag may have been due to the fact that the White House was busy negotiating with important, organized stake-holders like insurance and pharmacy companies. I hate to say it, but even a nominal amount of money directed at a fear-mongering campaign by any one of these groups can kill the process, so it’s important that Mr. Obama avoid goring anyones ox too directly. > > I doubt it will be perfect, but the broad outlines presented yesterday might be good enough for me, and its possible that Mr. Obama will be able to generate some new momentum on this issue. I’ll second this. I find it hard to get behind what the president is selling because he’s not really selling anything. He’s tossing out broad outlines but leaving the real sausage making to congress. Last I’d read there were five different bills out. I’d feel more enthused to support him were he to roll up his sleeves and tell us exactly what _his_ proposal is. ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/48 "2009-09-12T01:26:17Z")
I would say the opposite. For all that he’s the president, for all that he’s pushing power behind this reform becoming news again (and center stage again), he has absolutely no say in the wording of the bills, etc. It’s NOT HIS JOB. He can push an agenda, but if he started trying to inject executive authority in congressional matters, he’s interfering in due process. Making law is congress’ job. Stating that certain laws need to be made can be the executive’s job. Enforcing those laws can be the executive’s job, too. Adjudicating and possibly striking those laws is the Supreme Court’s job. I support the fact that healthcare reform must happen now, and I’m grateful that he brought it up and made it a national issue, but then he needs to keep his mitts off until it’s time to say Yes or Veto. If he digs his fingers too far into the pie, he’s going to overstep his bounds, and I’ll be one of the first ones to criticize. He’s pushing it a little bit with his lobbying efforts. Once again, Not His Job, Not His Call. He’s the Yes/No and publicity guy. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/49 "2009-09-12T01:37:46Z")
The problem for Obama supporters is locating the person to protest. Hard to get people to protest at Rush Limbaugh’s door. Who is he, just some entertainer. Do you protest at the office of that crackpot from South Carolina who yells Liar? Who is he but a nobody who would benefit from the notoriety. And how do you claim to be FOR Obama’s plan when there seem to be two or three out there, all disappointing to the people who worked hard for reform. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/50 "2009-09-12T23:47:57Z")
The OP has inspired me: I’ll be spending the rest of the day emailing my congress critters, thanking them for supporting Mr. Obama’s push for reform. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/51 "2009-09-12T23:58:51Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > This does not mean what you think it means. I would be one of those people who is unhappy with his job performance on Health Care so far. I think he should be doing much more to shout down the stupidity of wingnuts like yourself, but I fully support his plans and according to a CNN poll after his speech so do [67%](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/10/cnn-poll-double-digit-post-speech-jump-for-obama-plan/) of the respondents. That is a jump from 53% before the speech, which is still a mojority in support. I think she was leading the 10,000 Moron March in WDC this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/52 "2009-09-13T00:02:30Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Where the fuck are the people? Try the Town Halls. > > Or is it only grassroots democracy when Democrats do it? It’s not grassroots democracy when people are yelling “LIAR! SOCIALIST NAZI” on the urging of Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter and the rest. That’s astroturf. Also, I think the town halls are over. By the way, I seem to remember you being reasonable about politics back in the day. What turned you into a conservative shill? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/53 "2009-09-13T00:45:38Z")
The people are home. They want HC reform, they are not sure exactly how this will happen. Some are thinking how much it will cost them and wanting to see the numbers first. Few people actually want others to die for lack of HC it’s just how much money they are willing to spend in other people’s HC. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/54 "2009-09-13T00:55:07Z")
> [@Maia\_s\_Well](#): > > **GusNSpot, Crafter Man, aldiboronti,** and any other posters in this thread who are opposed to healthcare reform, may I ask a question? Do you have health insurance? > > Just curious. I do. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/55 "2009-09-13T03:18:31Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > They only polled people who watched the speech. Many people did not watch the speech (such as me) because they don’t want to spend one minute listening to a statist talk. So the poll is very biased. What, you think we’ve ever had a POTUS who wasn’t a statist? ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/56 "2009-09-13T07:00:54Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I do. Why do you ask? Thanks for answering. I asked because I was shocked to discover recently that a couple of my sister’s neighbors, who are quite vocally opposed to healthcare reform, don’t have health insurance. I think one of them is self-employed, and I don’t know what reasons the others might give for not having health insurance. It just never occurred to me that anyone opposed to govt. funded insurance would not have health insurance themselves. So I thought I’d take the first opportunity to see if there are posters here who protest healthcare reform, yet don’t have insurance themselves. I wonder about this for two reasons: 1) If you don’t have it, you are risking your own physical and financial wellbeing, and, 2), if you don’t have it, you’re running the risk of burdening the taxpayers and those who do have insurance having to bail you out. I guess it’s because I’ve always viewed conservatism as emphasizing personal responsibility, so I couldn’t grasp conservatives not, you know, taking personal responsibility. Just so’s you know, I wasn’t going to attact anyone who doesn’t have it. I mostly ask questions here to learn and to understand how other people think (although I am getting a little more feisty now that I’m posting more often:mad::p). Thanks again for answering. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/57 "2009-09-13T07:42:36Z")
> [@Maia\_s\_Well](#): > > It just never occurred to me that anyone opposed to govt. funded insurance would not have health insurance themselves. So I thought I’d take the first opportunity to see if there are posters here who protest healthcare reform, yet don’t have insurance themselves. > > I wonder about this for two reasons: 1) If you don’t have it, you are risking your own physical and financial wellbeing, and, 2), if you don’t have it, you’re running the risk of burdening the taxpayers and those who do have insurance having to bail you out. I have insurance now, but I was without insurance for ten years. During much of it, I was broke. I was aware of the risks I was running, but 1) given that I was young and healthy, it wasn’t that much of a risk and 2) if the shit had hit the fan, I’d have blamed nobody but myself. And FWIW, I don’t know that there’s anybody who has a problem with “healthcare reform” in the abstract; people do have problems with the specific proposals the admin and congress are advancing, and would prefer different reforms. ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/58 "2009-09-13T09:53:10Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I have insurance now, but I was without insurance for ten years. During much of it, I was broke. I was aware of the risks I was running, but 1) given that I was young and healthy, it wasn’t that much of a risk and 2) if the shit had hit the fan, I’d have blamed nobody but myself. I’m glad to know you’ve got insurance now. I remember being young and healthy, too. Back then, it was hard to even imagine “needing” insurance. With age comes a little more reality, don’t it? 😛 > [@furt](#): > > And FWIW, I don’t know that there’s anybody who has a problem with “healthcare reform” in the abstract; people do have problems with the specific proposals the admin and congress are advancing, and would prefer different reforms. I hear you. The folks I mentioned earlier are of the “Obama is a secret Muslim and bathes in baby blood” type, rather than the more thoughtful (and sane) folks here. Not that I’m throwing accusations around, implying that everyone here is sane! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/59 "2009-09-13T10:16:22Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And FWIW, I don’t know that there’s anybody who has a problem with “healthcare reform” in the abstract; people do have problems with the specific proposals the admin and congress are advancing, and would prefer different reforms. Which is a nice way to excuse yourself doing anything; I support you man, but you’re just not doing it right. You view doesn’t, unfortunately, sit well with the comment of Crafter\_Man - which is representative of many imo - that he wouldn’t even listen to the President’s reform proposals. You’re not going to get a lot of reform if a big chunk of people are so indoctrinated they refuse to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529/60 "2009-09-13T11:10:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And FWIW, I don’t know that there’s anybody who has a problem with “healthcare reform” in the abstract; people do have problems with the specific proposals the admin and congress are advancing, and would prefer different reforms. I with you here. I am unemployed and I NEED health insurance. Just something to help with eye-doctor, dentist, and physical appointments. I’d love a physical, no way can I afford that. I don’t have a problem with the idea and the fact that one is coming, but the one that’s coming (so far) doesn’t really show me if it will help me where I need it. When we get to grown men and women putting a Swastika in the “O” of Obama, it makes me want to move to another country. When I hear absolutely unqualified idiots like Michelle Bachmann in Minnesota saying we need to fast and pray on our knees and “cut our wrists to be blood brothers”, I feel ill. Ill enough to use ANY government plan for Oxycontin. Fuck you, teabaggers. Each and every one of you. What the hell are you teaching your kids? I hope they suck on Glenn’s asshole till they suffocate. Shit, now I’m angry again! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-the-fuck-are-the-people/509529.md?page=4)