# Where was Barack Obama, to stand for Democracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597 "2015-01-12T03:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/501 "2015-01-20T19:25:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You are so out to lunch. What I’m saying is conventional wisdom these days. Get over it, you’re a dead ender. This honestly made me laugh out loud. What the fuck does it even mean? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/502 "2015-01-20T19:29:38Z")
> [@andros](#): > > This honestly made me laugh out loud. What the fuck does it even mean? It means you’re evil for pointing out that Adaher is lying even after it’s been proven that he’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/503 "2015-01-20T19:30:23Z")
> **[Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](https://news.yahoo.com/)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. The fact that you even had to ask means you need to get out of your bubble. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A growing number of Americans doubt President Barack Obama’s ability to manage the nation, according to a CNN/ORC poll released on Monday that reflects the possible larger impact of his administration’s fumbled rollout of its healthcare law. > > The poll also found that 53 percent of those polled said Obama is not honest or trustworthy, marking the first time that the CNN/ORC polling found a clear majority questioning the president’s integrity, CNN said. That was Nov. 2013, but things hadn’t improved by July 2014: > **[CNN Poll: Obama’s numbers not great but holding steady | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/politics/obama-poll/index.html)** > > President Barack Obama’s poll numbers are nothing to brag about, but there’s little evidence he has suffered so far this year a “Katrina moment.” > [@](#): > > Only 42% believe that Obama can manage the government effectively. Again, nothing to celebrate, but it’s virtually unchanged from the 43% who felt that way in March. > **[Americans' Ratings of President Obama's Image at New Lows](https://news.gallup.com/poll/171473/americans-ratings-president-obama-image-new-lows.aspx)** > > Americans' favorable rating of President Barack Obama and their ratings of him on six different character dimensions are down slightly and are now the worst Gallup has measured for him to date. > [@](#): > > Americans are most likely to say Obama understands the problems Americans face in their daily lives (48%), that he is honest and trustworthy (47%), and that he is a strong and decisive leader (45%). They are less likely to say he shares their values (43%), can manage government effectively (39%), and has a clear plan for solving the country’s problems (34%). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/504 "2015-01-20T19:32:05Z")
Face it. He’s a liar, he dodges responsibility when he screws up, and he’s incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/505 "2015-01-20T19:34:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You are so out to lunch. What I’m saying is conventional wisdom these days. Get over it, you’re a dead ender. > [@](#): > > Face it. He’s a liar, he dodges responsibility when he screws up, and he’s incompetent. It’s certainly conventional wisdom that Obama should have gone to the Paris thing (and this is an example of bullshit conventional wisdom, IMO), but the rest of the crap you’re spewing is not “conventional wisdom” by any means. It’s just personal vitriol ("liar, “dodges responsibility”, “incompetent”). You just can’t stand him personally, and it shows with every post. Get over it, please, or at least keep your hatred to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/506 "2015-01-20T19:45:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Face it. He’s a liar, he dodges responsibility when he screws up, and he’s incompetent. No, you’re a lying twat that can’t advocate his positions honestly, so you throw up whatever chaff you can. You’re not a real human. You’re a robot. Stimulus -\> Response. Obama does X -\> Ahaher makes a post about X being bad. Calling you an idiot is to give you credit. Idiots can think. They’re just bad at it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/507 "2015-01-20T19:46:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Face it. He’s a liar, he dodges responsibility when he screws up, and he’s incompetent. Wow, that reeks of the stench of desperation. Just think how it will smell by the election, when the economy is really cooking, Obamacare is achieving more and more success, and the GOP is even more splintered? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/508 "2015-01-20T19:48:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s certainly conventional wisdom that Obama should have gone to the Paris thing (and this is an example of bullshit conventional wisdom, IMO), but the rest of the crap you’re spewing is not “conventional wisdom” by any means. It’s just personal vitriol ("liar, “dodges responsibility”, “incompetent”). You just can’t stand him personally, and it shows with every post. Get over it, please, or at least keep your hatred to yourself. 55-60% say he can’t manage the government effectively(incompetent) 50-55% say he’s not honest and trustworthy(liar) The fact that he dodges responsibility should be beyond dispute, since whether or not he’s responsible for what goes on in his administration has been the subject of many arguments between us. We don’t disagree on whether he dodges responsibility, we disagree on whether he’s justified in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/509 "2015-01-20T19:49:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Wow, that reeks of the stench of desperation. Just think how it will smell by the election, when the economy is really cooking, Obamacare is achieving more and more success, and the GOP is even more splintered? He’s certainly getting a little bit of an economic boost, no question. Will that be the case two years from now? And it might be time for you to get over this long held dream that ACA’s popularity is just around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/510 "2015-01-20T19:51:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 55-60% say he can’t manage the government effectively(incompetent) > 50-55% say he’s not honest and trustworthy(liar) According to your old poll, and if you ignore the day-to-day current polls which are looking up and up for Obama. > [@](#): > > The fact that he dodges responsibility should be beyond dispute, since whether or not he’s responsible for what goes on in his administration has been the subject of many arguments between us. We don’t disagree on whether he dodges responsibility, we disagree on whether he’s justified in doing so. Nothing you say is beyond dispute about Obama. You’re just not capable of speaking about him in a reasonable way. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/511 "2015-01-20T19:53:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He’s certainly getting a little bit of an economic boost, no question. Will that be the case two years from now? And it might be time for you to get over this long held dream that ACA’s popularity is just around the corner. I have no illusion conservatives will ever admit that Obamacare is achieving most of its goals sooner than expected, even when confronted with the cold, hard facts. But it is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/512 "2015-01-20T19:54:33Z")
The latest poll shows that he’s now positive on the economy, 49–47 on his handling of the economy. However, the same poll on foreign affairs showed him still at 37-56 [http://pollingreport.com/obama\_ad.htm](http://pollingreport.com/obama_ad.htm) So he’s getting a boost from the economy, but voters still seem to give his performance on things he controls a rather low rating. My first poll was old. The next two were more recent. There hasn’t been a "can effectively manage the government poll this month as far as I know, but a poll a few months old is still quite valid in the absence of new data. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/513 "2015-01-20T19:55:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have no illusion conservatives will ever admit that Obamacare is achieving most of its goals sooner than expected, even when confronted with the cold, hard facts. But it is. If conservatives were your only problem, you wouldn’t have a problem. Unless you are making a tacit admission that conservatives are the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/514 "2015-01-20T19:59:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 55-60% say he can’t manage the government effectively(incompetent) > 50-55% say he’s not honest and trustworthy(liar) > > The fact that he dodges responsibility should be beyond dispute, since whether or not he’s responsible for what goes on in his administration has been the subject of many arguments between us. We don’t disagree on whether he dodges responsibility, we disagree on whether he’s justified in doing so. How many people believe in angels? How many people believe in creationism? The number of people who believe something measures the quality messaging. It doesn’t measure the actual quality of policy or management. Of course, that king of nuance is for thinking beings. You’re a clockwork anus. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/515 "2015-01-20T19:59:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The latest poll shows that he’s now positive on the economy, 49–47 on his handling of the economy. > > However, the same poll on foreign affairs showed him still at 37-56 > > [Obama Administration](http://pollingreport.com/obama_ad.htm) > > So he’s getting a boost from the economy, but voters still seem to give his performance on things he controls a rather low rating. > > My first poll was old. The next two were more recent. There hasn’t been a "can effectively manage the government poll this month as far as I know, but a poll a few months old is still quite valid in the absence of new data. They weren’t “a few months old” – they were more than 6 months old. All it tells us is what people thought in June/July of last year. Snapshot. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/516 "2015-01-20T19:59:58Z")
In 50 or 100 years, Obama will be judged to have been one of the greatest presidents in American history, right up there with Lincoln, Washington and FDR. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/517 "2015-01-20T20:06:51Z")
IT’s possible, but that’s because historians focus on big things rather than the day to day job. A President can fuck up 364 days a year, but if on his one good day he signs the Social Security Act, he’s a great President, historically speaking. That being said, most of the great Presidents have been actual great Presidents. Obama has been compared to Truman in the Elections forum for good reason. He’s not popular, isn’t likely to become popular, but may be rehabilitated solely because of Obamacare. As long as he doesn’t pull an LBJ and get us into a disastrous war with ISIS. Then he’s still screwed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/518 "2015-01-20T20:08:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He’s not popular, isn’t likely to become popular You keep using these words. I don’t think you understand what they mean. Today, he’s moderately popular and trending upwards. It may change tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/519 "2015-01-20T20:10:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How many people believe in angels? How many people believe in creationism? > > The number of people who believe something measures the quality messaging. It doesn’t measure the actual quality of policy or management. > > Of course, that king of nuance is for thinking beings. You’re a clockwork anus. It would seem that you are the one lacking in nuance. I haven’t cited polls to prove that Obama is dishonest or incompetent. Only to establish that my belief isn’t just the belief of some desperate dead ender shaking my fist at a President I dislike and trying to make everyone see the truth about him. The public already sees him much the way I do. I represent the majority position in this regard. That does not prove I’m right, it just proves that I’m not some crank. The cranks are the ones who cite his adequateness as if it’s assumed and doesn’t have to be proven. Because they believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that they are actually in the majority. Problem is, they are only in the majority here on SDMB. And boy, you guys get angrier and angrier the more the outside world demonstrates it’s “ignorance” by not liking the President. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/520 "2015-01-20T20:11:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You keep using these words. I don’t think you understand what they mean. Today, he’s moderately popular and trending upwards. It may change tomorrow. 44% is not moderately popular. He is trending upwards, or at least he was. He peaked at 45% but seems to have levelled off since the Paris kerfuffle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=27)