# Where was Barack Obama, to stand for Democracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597 "2015-01-12T03:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/541 "2015-01-20T22:54:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It seems that your concern about Presidential “haters” is limited to only one side of the aisle. Aw snap! I forgot about the _other_ president! We have two now, right? You really are a tool, aintcha? Keep on grabbing those straws. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/542 "2015-01-20T22:56:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Aw snap! I forgot about the _other_ president! We have two now, right? Well, there was Clinton, and then there was the other one, right? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/543 "2015-01-20T23:04:57Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > There was a memorial service, attended by a large number of world political types as I recall. I’ll try to find a link. Found one yet? > [@](#): > > Then of course there was the memorial service for the 190 people killed in the Madrid bombings. Bush didn’t make that one either. No. Secretary of State did though. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/544 "2015-01-20T23:25:09Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In 50 or 100 years, Obama will be judged to have been one of the greatest presidents in American history, right up there with Lincoln, Washington and FDR. Wartime presidents. Obama has accomplished less than LBJ and few consider LBJ an all-time great. Clinton is (and will be) considered a better president. Unless racial historicism overstates his legacy simply due to the color of his skin. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/545 "2015-01-20T23:43:01Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Wartime presidents. > > Obama has accomplished less than LBJ and few consider LBJ an all-time great. Only because of Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/546 "2015-01-21T00:00:31Z")
Coming up under during Obama’s Presidency is a Supreme Court case for same sex marriage. If the court finds in favor of same sex marriage it will be credited as part of his legacy bumping him a bit higher in terms of greatest presidents. If they find against same sex marriage he’ll have to put more effort into it but his actions will likely be recorded positively in the history books. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/547 "2015-01-21T00:02:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Found one yet? > No. Secretary of State did though. See how that works? So not the President. Out of interest, did you see much outrage back then? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/548 "2015-01-21T00:40:48Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So not the President. Out of interest, did you see much outrage back then? Secretary of State is sufficient representation. If Obama sent Kerry or Biden this time, there would have been no “outrage”. Putin sent Lavrov, for example. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/549 "2015-01-21T00:43:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Secretary of State is sufficient representation. If Obama sent Kerry this time, there would have been no “outrage”. Putin sent Lavrov, for example. Right. If he had sent Kerry, Republicans wouldn’t criticize him, and there would be no outrage, because that’s what this is about. It’s not at all about faux outrage over nothing with a host country that has expressed no complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/550 "2015-01-21T00:45:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right. If he had sent Kerry, Republicans wouldn’t criticize him, and there would be no outrage, because that’s what this is about. It’s not at all about faux outrage over nothing with a host country that has expressed no complaint. It’s about incompetency, tone-deafness and cluelesness. WH admitted it was a mistake. But you’re holding on still… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/551 "2015-01-21T00:47:55Z")
IT doesn’t matter if Republicans criticize the President, if they are the only ones criticizing the President. That’s just normal politics. The President’s action here drew criticism from way beyond the usual quarters. Which wouldn’t have happened had he sent so much as his AG. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/552 "2015-01-21T00:55:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > IT doesn’t matter if Republicans criticize the President, if they are the only ones criticizing the President. That’s just normal politics. > > The President’s action here drew criticism from way beyond the usual quarters. Which wouldn’t have happened had he sent so much as his AG. No, it would have happened anyway. That’s what happens – Obama does something (or doesn’t do something) and the usual suspects try to make hay. They just lucked out when, for some reason, some of the not usual suspects (not the French leadership, though) joined in. Not with any justification, in my view, whatever the WH says (you might notice that I tend to disagree with the WH and Obama on plenty of issues). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/553 "2015-01-21T01:02:34Z")
That’s fine. I’ve said before that whether he should have sent a higher level official or gone himself is strictly a matter of opinion. What I take issue with is two things: 1. Some posters’ insistence that this is not a matter of opinion, but that those who think he should have done what he says he should have done are assholes. 2. This idea that security was an issue when the Secret Service was never asked. That was the first place he tried to pass the buck and they responded appropriately: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/01/12/top-obama-administration-officials-criticized-for-not-appearing-at-paris-march/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/01/12/top-obama-administration-officials-criticized-for-not-appearing-at-paris-march/) > [@](#): > > Had the circumstances been different, “I think the president himself would have liked to have had the opportunity to be there,” Earnest said. > > A Secret Service official said the agency was not asked or notified about a potential trip to Paris. That was a lie. If he wanted to go, he would have asked. Then came excuse#2, “The President didn’t make the decision”. Whatever. If it’s not a big deal, why dodge responsibilty for it? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/554 "2015-01-21T01:05:58Z")
I think it’s fine to second guess the White House and hold an opinion that “he should have sent a higher level official.” Nothing wrong with that. Where people go off the rails is when they also state that this is a screw up or a scandal or something like that. He had several options, you disagree with the one he picked, fine. When you’re POTUS you can do it your way. He did it a different way, life goes on. No scandal here. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/555 "2015-01-21T01:06:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The President’s action here drew criticism from way beyond the usual quarters. Which wouldn’t have happened had he sent so much as his AG. Which just underscores how little they really have on the guy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/556 "2015-01-21T01:07:25Z")
No scandal. Screwup, yes. Otherwise they wouldn’t have admitted they made the wrong call. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/557 "2015-01-21T01:10:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s fine. I’ve said before that whether he should have sent a higher level official or gone himself is strictly a matter of opinion. What I take issue with is two things: > > 1. Some posters’ insistence that this is not a matter of opinion, but that those who think he should have done what he says he should have done are assholes. > > 2. This idea that security was an issue when the Secret Service was never asked. That was the first place he tried to pass the buck and they responded appropriately: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/01/12/top-obama-administration-officials-criticized-for-not-appearing-at-paris-march/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/01/12/top-obama-administration-officials-criticized-for-not-appearing-at-paris-march/) > > That was a lie. If he wanted to go, he would have asked. > > Then came excuse#2, “The President didn’t make the decision”. Whatever. If it’s not a big deal, why dodge responsibilty for it? Or, you fucking imbecile, he knew what it entails to go on a cross-ocean trip to an open-air parade, so he didn’t ask. So it’s not a lie so much as you being too fucking stupid to understand the complexity of reality. But you don’t need reality to be complex. You have a simple equation that you run on every issue. Obama=wrong. Aside, him going there would have been a waste of time. It would have entailed putting Secret Service agents on rooftops and controlling the whole march route. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/558 "2015-01-21T01:11:25Z")
Well, people in Paris are sure angry. The mayor of Paris is even threatening legal action, because the honour and image of Paris had been “prejudiced.” Oh, they’re OK with Obama. They’re pissed at [Fox News](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/city-of-paris-to-sue-fox-news-for-muslim-insults/article22546413/) But do carry on with your pretend notion that the French were horribly insulted by Obama. It’s precious. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/559 "2015-01-21T01:13:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No scandal. Screwup, yes. Otherwise they wouldn’t have admitted they made the wrong call. The trouble is, that 30% of the country is just like you. Empty, mindless robots that feel what RW media tells them to feel. When governing people like you, a diplomatic word is sometimes in order, lest the adaher-like lose their shit. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/560 "2015-01-21T01:20:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > They’re pissed at [Fox News](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/city-of-paris-to-sue-fox-news-for-muslim-insults/article22546413/) > > But do carry on with your pretend notion that the French were horribly insulted by Obama. It’s precious. What’s precious is the idea of this lawsuit. How would the City of Paris even have standing to sue? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=29)