# Where was Barack Obama, to stand for Democracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597 "2015-01-12T03:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/161 "2015-01-12T20:32:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, I’m expressing what I think is the diplomatically correct thing. Which is why I qualified my post with “I think”, which you edited out. I don’t know enough about Canadian government to know the correct person to send, but having some cabinet person attend just because he happens to be in the country doesn’t seem particularly diplomatically correct to me. Diplomatic protocol is all about the level of the person that is sent. A cabinet minister’s level is much higher than ambassadorial level. Hell, I think a State Dept. Sub-sub-Secretary is higher than ambassadorial level. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/162 "2015-01-12T20:33:01Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is funny, in France the only discussion of this subject is how the americans are having the strange debate. Clearly, you’re still in shock and unable to comprehend the long-term impact of this international crisis. When it hits you— and it will---- just know that we love and support you, and will do what we can to help you as you begin the long and arduous task of healing from the grave, grave wound our thoughtless President has inflicted upon you and your countrymen. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/163 "2015-01-12T20:34:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Diplomatically, that might have been worse. _Hey, we need a cabinet guy to stand if for Kerry. Wait, Holder is there, send him. SecState, Attorney General… same dif!_ > > It had to have been Kerry or Biden if not Obama or the French Ambassador. I think. I don’t think that the Ambassador to France was the appropriate person to send, at all. She’s not a diplomat, let alone a statesman. She’s a political hack, known for “bundling” campaign contributions for Obama. [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/07/world/europe/obama-nominates-ambassadors-to-france-and-ireland-jane-hartley-kevin-omalley.html?\_r=1](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/07/world/europe/obama-nominates-ambassadors-to-france-and-ireland-jane-hartley-kevin-omalley.html?_r=1) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/164 "2015-01-12T20:39:20Z")
To paraphrase Shakespeare: “Bullshit over nothing” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/165 "2015-01-12T20:41:57Z")
Do they still call them “Freedom Fries” in the congressional cafeteria? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/166 "2015-01-12T20:41:57Z")
I think Obama should have named Jeffrey Epstein as his personal representative and sent him. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/167 "2015-01-12T20:41:45Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > {…} 4. Sent Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas to discuss security issues with the French. {…} Shirley you’re not suggesting that discussing what to actually do about this is more important than standing around getting your picture taken? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/168 "2015-01-12T20:48:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Except now the WH is saying it… Ever kind of apologized for something not because you were really wrong, but because everyone else got bent out of shape on it? I was married for 22 years, so I know I did. Didn’t make me wrong, I just half-assed apologized to throw oil on the waters. One of the job requirements for WH spokesman. The reality is that if there was offense to be taken, it would be the French who would own that. If they are saying (and I think they are, from what I’ve seen) that they are not offended, then THERE IS NO FUCKING OFFENSE. Unclench please. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/169 "2015-01-12T20:57:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, it was. And I, as an American, think our President should have been there showing support for the French. The same French who celebrate an American cop kliller? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/170 "2015-01-12T21:03:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s a ridiculous hypothetical that could never be proven, so why make it? Neither one of us watches enough Fox (I don’t watch any, except Chris Wallace sometimes on Sunday; I hope you don’t spend much time watching it), so we wouldn’t have much of a basis to go on. If you think they oppose Obama on every single thing he does, it’s probably a case of confirmation bias, as that would be virtually impossible to do. > > But go ahead and stoop to their level by making shit up if you like… Goodness, but we’re testy this morning! Are you quite sure you’re getting enough fiber? “Making shit up” is traditionally a way of saying “lying”. Like most native Texans, I am a vulnerable and sensitive creature, and honest enough in a general sort of way, even if not attentive to details. And I _did_ clearly state the hypothetical nature of the proposition. Though not a forgiving man by nature, I am attentive to my hypocrisies and like to keep them well-starched, pressed and folded so that they may be displayed in polite company without embarrassment. So, of course, I do not require an apology, though a small donation check to the Home for the Chronically Groovy would make a splendid gesture… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/171 "2015-01-12T21:05:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Diplomatic protocol is all about the level of the person that is sent. A cabinet minister’s level is much higher than ambassadorial level. Hell, I think a State Dept. Sub-sub-Secretary is higher than ambassadorial level. So your entire concern is that Obama _hurt the feelings of the French._ Remind me when you started caring about the French’s feelings? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/172 "2015-01-12T21:11:10Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > To paraphrase Shakespeare: “Bullshit over nothing” [Kurt Russell said it better.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9F9m6eiCco) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/173 "2015-01-12T21:19:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Goodness, but we’re testy this morning! Are you quite sure you’re getting enough fiber? I have several glasses of wine every evening, so I think I’m good in the fiber dept. There’s got to be the stray stem in there somewhere, right? > [@](#): > > “Making shit up” is traditionally a way of saying “lying”. Not really. One “makes up” a hypothetical, but it’s not a lie-- it’s a fantasy. > [@](#): > > Like most native Texans, I am a vulnerable and sensitive creature, and honest enough in a general sort of way, even if not attentive to details. And I _did_ clearly state the hypothetical nature of the proposition. > > Though not a forgiving man by nature, I am attentive to my hypocrisies and like to keep them well-starched, pressed and folded so that they may be displayed in polite company without embarrassment. So, of course, I do not require an apology, though a small donation check to the Home for the Chronically Groovy would make a splendid gesture… The man doth protest too much, I’m afraid. Take another hit and chill out, _amigo_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/174 "2015-01-12T21:21:35Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > [Kurt Russell said it better.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9F9m6eiCco) Nice mullet! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/175 "2015-01-12T21:21:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Diplomatic protocol is all about the level of the person that is sent. A cabinet minister’s level is much higher than ambassadorial level. Hell, I think a State Dept. Sub-sub-Secretary is higher than ambassadorial level. Cite? In [military honors precedence](http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/p600_60/main.asp), an ambassador (in the country to which they are accredited) is well above the Attorney General (or any other cabinet official). ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/176 "2015-01-12T21:25:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nice mullet! Mine or his? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/177 "2015-01-12T21:25:57Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Ever kind of apologized for something not because you were really wrong, but because everyone else got bent out of shape on it? I was married for 22 years, so I know I did. Didn’t make me wrong, I just half-assed apologized to throw oil on the waters. > > One of the job requirements for WH spokesman. > > The reality is that if there was offense to be taken, it would be the French who would own that. If they are saying (and I think they are, from what I’ve seen) that they are not offended, then THERE IS NO FUCKING OFFENSE. Unclench please. Ah, you apply the dodge when it suits your argument (paragraph 1) and ignore it when it doesn’t (paragraph 3). If what Obama said was an appeasement apology, then the French’s non-outrage is a feined one because one does not openly express “zee outrage” towards the other side. Anyway, I don’t think the French felt snubbed and don’t think the WH is faking an apology. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/178 "2015-01-12T21:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Kurt Russell said it better. Illustrates a common problem with young men, an overdeveloped upper torso, shoulders and arms, top-heavy and unbalanced. Otherwise, a pampered little anorexic twat could not have tipped him overboard with an arm that has never lifted anything heavier than a chihuahua. A man of mature years is careful to keep a substantial portion of his weight centered on the belt line, as a prudent precaution for just such an eventuality. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/179 "2015-01-12T21:34:38Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Mine or his? If the comb fits! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597/180 "2015-01-12T21:36:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Diplomatic protocol is all about the level of the person that is sent. A cabinet minister’s level is much higher than ambassadorial level. So you’re saying we should have sent the Sec of Education? > [@](#): > > Hell, I think a State Dept. Sub-sub-Secretary is higher than ambassadorial level. If you think so, then you might be able to generate a cite to back it up…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-barack-obama-to-stand-for-democracy/709597.md?page=10)