# Where Was Jamie McGarry When I Needed Him? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405 "2011-06-30T17:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/41 "2011-07-02T20:50:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Someone with prosthetic arms? Would such a person be able to drive? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/42 "2011-07-02T21:17:13Z")
I’m aware of at least one armless woman who legally drives with her feet. Provided someone with prosthetic arms can safely operate a vehicle, whether with their arms, feet, or whatever, I don’t see why not. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/43 "2011-07-02T21:21:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m aware of at least one armless woman who legally drives with her feet. How does she steer? > [@](#): > > Provided someone with prosthetic arms can safely operate a vehicle, whether with their arms, feet, or whatever, I don’t see why not. That’s what I’m asking. Can such a person operate a vehicle. Can such a person drive. Do you really parse a difference there? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/44 "2011-07-02T21:34:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m aware of at least one armless woman who legally drives with her feet. Provided someone with prosthetic arms can safely operate a vehicle, whether with their arms, feet, or whatever, I don’t see why not. Are you talking about that girl who was on that documentary? Didn’t she lose her arms surfing or something? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/45 "2011-07-02T21:34:47Z")
With her feet. There’re more than you think, but yes, people with no arms can drive cars. [Jessica Cox](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Cox) even flies planes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/46 "2011-07-02T21:46:15Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > How does she steer? One foot to steer, one foot on the pedals. > [@](#): > > That’s what I’m asking. Can such a person operate a vehicle. Can such a person drive. Do you really parse a difference there? Yes, such a person can operate a vehicle. Yes, such a person can drive. I did parse your sentence correctly and I did answer it. You just maintained your state of disbelief after I did so. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Are you talking about that girl who was on that documentary? Didn’t she lose her arms surfing or something? If the surfer girl is whom I thinking of she only lost one arm. No, I’m talking about a driver lacking _both_ arms. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > With her feet. There’re more than you think, but yes, people with no arms can drive cars. [Jessica Cox](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Cox) even flies planes. Quite impressive, but she is NOT the world’s first armless pilot. Well, I suppose it’s how you define the term. Ms. Cox, if I recall, lacks arms entirely. There is an aerobatic pilot out there who flies airshows professionally (or at least did - I heard about him 10 years or so ago) who is missing both hands and in his case he does use prostheses. I’m not up on all the various requirements of handicapped drivers for the various states, but I am familiar with the FAA regs for disabled pilots, which are very simple and consist of two-part question: Can this person physically operate this flying machine such that 1. They are not a hazard to anyone else, and 2. Not a hazard to themselves. If the answer to _both_ of those questions is “yes” then the person can fly. Note that the FAA doesn’t really much care HOW they manage to do this - the pilot can use any adapative aids he or she desires - so long as the answer to 1 and 2 is “yes”. So… there are hand controls available for several common models of airplane. A pilot can have a plane modified (requires paperwork and money), but then might be restricted to just that airplane. Amputees can use or not use prostheses as they choose (Jessica Cox apparently chooses “not”. Tammy Duckworth, a double leg amputee with limited use of one arm, uses 1 prosthetic leg but not two). There are a surprising number of wheelchair pilots out there in the skies. About the only thing you WON’T see is a person blind in BOTH eyes or an epileptic flying an airplane. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/47 "2011-07-03T06:43:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, such a person can operate a vehicle. > > Yes, such a person can drive. > > I did parse your sentence correctly and I did answer it. You just maintained your state of disbelief after I did so. What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/48 "2011-07-03T10:38:11Z")
You asked if a person with no arms could drive. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/49 "2011-07-03T12:42:44Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You asked if a person with no arms could drive. Right. Which is the same thing as asking whether he could operate a motor vehicle. Yet you somehow seem to make a distinction. And what’s this shite about a state of disbelief? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/50 "2011-07-03T12:59:20Z")
I’m confused as to why you’re confused - “driving” and “operating a motor vehicle” are the same thing, aren’t they? As long as the hypothetical armless person could do so safely it’s the same thing. I don’t understand why you think that I think there is a difference there, or that somehow I didn’t answer your question. Whatever, it’s pointless to carry this further. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/51 "2011-07-03T13:08:45Z")
[Referencing the OP] As long as I felt she wasn’t going to key my car, I would have just said “I have stuff to do, if you think I’m breaking the law, call the police, bye” and walked away. In fact, I have a habit of doing that when people ‘Junior Mod’ in real life and I know I’m not wrong. Many years ago I was dating someone and because of where her house was situated I had to park on a side street in front of someone else’s house. One day, after a few weeks the owner came out and yelled at me for parking in her space. At first I tried to explain to her that it’s not _her_ space. [I should note that she wasn’t looking to park a car here, she honestly thought she owned that part of the street, she kept her car in the garage]. She argued that since she shoveled the walk and cut the grass in front of it, she owned that spot as well. I explained to her that as a homeowner the city requires her to do that, but she still doesn’t own the road. After it turned into a yelling and screaming match I told her to call the cops, if I’m wrong, they’ll write me a ticket, and I walked away. Never heard another word about it. I even made a point of honking my horn when I parked there for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/52 "2011-07-03T14:56:32Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > [Referencing the OP] > As long as I felt she wasn’t going to key my car, I would have just said “I have stuff to do, if you think I’m breaking the law, call the police, bye” and walked away. > In fact, I have a habit of doing that when people ‘Junior Mod’ in real life and I know I’m not wrong. Even without suggesting she call the police, that IS sort of what she did by calling over the mall security guy, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/53 "2011-07-08T22:46:34Z")
I had a “Where’s McGarry when I need him?” moment last week. I was on the phone with an able-bodied friend of mine, who talked for nearly an hour (!) about she got scolded by a police officer for parking in a handicapped space, using her elderly mother’s hang tag, even though her mother wasn’t there with her. Why did she park in that spot, you might ask? She has twins, and she can better fit her double-wide SUV stroller on the side of her mini-van when she unloads her children. Now, the FAQ. [ul] [li]_Why does she need the room on the side?_ “Because if I put the stroller behind my car, and carried each kid out there individually, someone may drive into the stroller! Nobody pays attention!” Despite the 1:100,000,000 odds of that happening, “But what if it happened to me?” Yeah, she’s a bit overprotective.[/li] [li]_Why not park in the far reaches of a parking lot instead?_ “Because someone always has to park next to me!”[/li] [li]_Why not use a tandem stroller instead of a double-wide?_ “They’re harder to navigate when you’re also pushing a shopping cart!”[/li] [li]_What about a stork space?_ “I thought you had to be pregnant to use them. Besides, they’re not wide enough!”[/li][/ul] She was _damn_ lucky she didn’t get a ticket. Anyhow, she feels that she’s perfectly justified in using handicapped spaces because she’s just a mother trying to protect her children, and the spaces go empty most of the time. She didn’t quite understand that they aren’t spaces of convenience; that the spaces are there to provide the handicapped with access to the services able-bodied people take for granted. The spaces aren’t a special privilege for a minority; they’re there as part of protecting the basic civil rights of the disabled. I normally try to be supportive of my friends, but this time … ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/54 "2011-07-09T01:42:41Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I had a “Where’s McGarry when I need him?” moment last week. > > I was on the phone with an able-bodied friend of mine, who talked for nearly an hour (!) about she got scolded by a police officer for parking in a handicapped space, using her elderly mother’s hang tag, even though her mother wasn’t there with her. > > Why did she park in that spot, you might ask? She has twins, and she can better fit her double-wide SUV stroller on the side of her mini-van when she unloads her children. > > Now, the FAQ. > > [ul] > [li]_Why does she need the room on the side?_ “Because if I put the stroller behind my car, and carried each kid out there individually, someone may drive into the stroller! Nobody pays attention!” Despite the 1:100,000,000 odds of that happening, “But what if it happened to me?” Yeah, she’s a bit overprotective.[/li] > [li]_Why not park in the far reaches of a parking lot instead?_ “Because someone always has to park next to me!”[/li] > [li]_Why not use a tandem stroller instead of a double-wide?_ “They’re harder to navigate when you’re also pushing a shopping cart!”[/li] > [li]_What about a stork space?_ “I thought you had to be pregnant to use them. Besides, they’re not wide enough!”[/li][/ul] > > She was _damn_ lucky she didn’t get a ticket. > > Anyhow, she feels that she’s perfectly justified in using handicapped spaces because she’s just a mother trying to protect her children, and the spaces go empty most of the time. She didn’t quite understand that they aren’t spaces of convenience; that the spaces are there to provide the handicapped with access to the services able-bodied people take for granted. The spaces aren’t a special privilege for a minority; they’re there as part of protecting the basic civil rights of the disabled. > > I normally try to be supportive of my friends, but this time … ☹ "What about a stork space? “I thought you had to be pregnant to use them.” Pregnant mother-parking spaces are to be respected, huh? But not those silly handicap spots, those are there simply for the inconvenienced. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/55 "2011-07-09T01:59:16Z")
I had a similar moment today when going to the gym. As I was pulling in to one of the available handicap spots, I notice a young girl sitting in her car in the handicap spot next to me, eating some food. As I was looking at her as I pulled into the spot, she saw me looking in her direction and hurriedly put down her food and put up a handicap placard on her rearview mirror. I parked and got out, noticing that she was still sitting in her car (which was not running) even though she was no longer eating. I went on in to the gym, only to see her walk on in a minute later seemingly unhindered by any sort of disability. However, obviously all physical disabilities are not visible or obvious (and she DID have a placard), even though she was displaying no problem walking herself into a place one goes for physical exercise and activity. So, several minutes later after we had both been in the gym for awhile, I approach her while she is on a machine. “Hey, how are you?”, I ask her, just to break the ice. She knew exactly why I was approaching and she was trying to avoid looking at me as I had been wheeling her way; “Oh, good, and you?”, is her meek reply. “I was simply curious and I don’t mean this as any sort of accusation or anything but can I ask you what you disability is?” She wont even make eye contact with me. “I broke my leg awhile back and I still can’t walk right”. There was nothing on either of her legs but shorts, socks and shoes. “But you walked in here, TO A GYM, just fine.” “Yeah but I’m not running or anything”. “But you still could have had no problem parking in a regular spot and WALKING in to this GYM to workout.” “People genuinely need to park in those spots and you are taking that from them.” “Ok.” “You and I both know that just because you still have a placard from when you broke your leg doesn’t mean you should still use it when you are healed up just fine. Healed up enough to come work out no less.” She had nothing to say. I went on with my day. I’m guessing everyone here is going to pile on me for having the nerve to question this girl about her disability. But given the context, I feel like it was appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/56 "2011-07-09T02:11:56Z")
Can’t say I disagree with you Jamie, but you’ve got a chip on your shoulder that makes you sound like a major jerk. Can’t you let it go, just a tad? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/57 "2011-07-09T02:18:49Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I had a similar moment today when going to the gym. As I was pulling in to one of the available handicap spots, I notice a young girl sitting in her car in the handicap spot next to me, eating some food. As I was looking at her as I pulled into the spot, she saw me looking in her direction and hurriedly put down her food and put up a handicap placard on her rearview mirror. Was it a temp. or permanent tag? She may have nerve/muscle damage that limits her total time on her feet and any step she saves can be used for something more useful. The workout may be part of her continued rehab. Or it could be someone else’s tag. I do think you crossed the line questioning her. I thought that was kind of a hands off sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/58 "2011-07-09T03:28:30Z")
Hmmm, I’d say that’s pretty borderline, but if she really needs the placard, she’ll continue to use it, and if she doesn’t, she might be shamed enough now not to, at least where she might worry about running into jamiemcgarry again. I thought those placards had a time limit to them when they’re issued for a temporary disability. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/59 "2011-07-09T03:34:15Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Hmmm, I’d say that’s pretty borderline, but if she really needs the placard, she’ll continue to use it, and if she doesn’t, she might be shamed enough now not to, at least where she might worry about running into jamiemcgarry again. > > I thought those placards had a time limit to them when they’re issued for a temporary disability. In California, red is the temp and is good for six months. Blue is permanent and is renewed automatically every two years. I would imagine it’s similar in other states. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405/60 "2011-07-09T03:38:56Z")
I looked up Michigan. Red=temp., good for up to six months. Blue is permanent, renews every four years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-jamie-mcgarry-when-i-needed-him/587405.md?page=4)