# Where was Margaret of Anjou on August 16th of 1453? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862 "2011-01-16T21:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/1 "2011-01-16T21:13:42Z")
The burning question of the day, at least for me: When Henry VI fell into madness on August 16, 1453 at the hunting lodge in Clarendon, where was his wife, Queen Margaret? All the secondary sources I’ve seen imply that she was with him in Clarendon and escorted him back to Westminster and then Windsor Castle. That is, that she was in constant attendance on him. But the sources only _imply_, they don’t clearly state. I’ve now come across one interpretation (a novel of historical fiction but clearly thoroughly researched) that flatly states that Margaret, seven months pregnant, was at the palace in Greenwich and stayed out of personal contact with Henry until after her child was born. Maybe the novel’s author was indulging in creative license or maybe my own research for a novel has led me in the wrong direction…? Can anyone come up with a reasonable, reliable source that clearly states where Margaret was in August 1453? My own google-fu has fallen short. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/2 "2011-01-17T22:51:36Z")
With the number of views but lack of replies this topic has gathered, I’ve assumed that no one has the answer quite on the tip of their tongue… 🙂 Well, I understand that it’s an obscure issue and that more normal people obsess over politics or some such…but this was bugging me…so I took the next step. A further bit of googling revealed that the author of the novel I mention above has been brave enough to put her email address online…so I emailed the author. She responded quickly and cites two references: Bertram Wolffe’s Henry VI, which is available online, mostly, at Google Books. This work gives a detailed itinerary of Henry’s travels in July and August through western England and makes it clear that a late-pregnancy woman would not be likely to sustain that journey on horseback. Helen Maurer’s Margaret of Anjou: Queenship and Power in Late Medieval England provides a citation for Margaret being in the environs of London on September 10, which is before Henry arrived from Clarendon. Therefore, Margaret did NOT accompany Henry on this trip and was not present when he slipped into madness. Q.E.D. This will necessitate some re-plotting of my novel-in-process but better before completion than after… I hope this resolves any anxiety on the part of those readers who were worrying about this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/3 "2011-01-17T22:56:50Z")
> [@Satyagrahi](#): > > Therefore, Margaret did NOT accompany Henry on this trip and was not present when he slipped into madness. Q.E.D. You know, I always thought so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/4 "2011-01-17T22:58:30Z")
I had this vision of some Medieval gumshoe grilling the Queen about her alibi. “Oh, just one more thing, Your Highness…” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/5 "2011-01-17T23:56:33Z")
She wasn’t with me. Honest! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/6 "2011-01-18T01:09:06Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I had this vision of some Medieval gumshoe grilling the Queen about her alibi. > > “Oh, just one more thing, Your Highness…” “Your Majesty”, please. Queens Consort get the “Majesty” honorific, even after their royal husbands die. For several months in 1952-53, the U.K. had three "Her Majesty"s – the Queen (QE2), Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, and Queen Mary, the Queen’s grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/7 "2011-01-18T01:28:53Z")
“Oh, my mistake Your Majesty. No disrespect intended. I’m just trying to get it straight in my head–I’m sure your husband’s–the King’s unfortunate afflication has entirely natural causes. I’m just trying to resolve this inconsistency, though, as to whether or not you were with him on the 16th, or if you were somewhere else. I hear one thing, I hear the other thing–I just want to get it straight in my head, Your Majesty.” ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/8 "2011-01-18T01:48:24Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “Oh, my mistake Your Majesty. No disrespect intended. I’m just trying to get it straight in my head–I’m sure your husband’s–the King’s unfortunate afflication has entirely natural causes. I’m just trying to resolve this inconsistency, though, as to whether or not you were with him on the 16th, or if you were somewhere else. I hear one thing, I hear the other thing–I just want to get it straight in my head, Your Majesty.” And now we have another problem with dates: Cristoforo Columbo was only two years old at this time… ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/9 "2011-01-18T03:43:30Z")
> [@Satyagrahi](#): > > When Henry VI fell into madness on August 16, 1453 at the hunting lodge in Clarendon, where was his wife, Queen Margaret? In my other pants. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/10 "2011-02-12T00:43:18Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “Oh, my mistake Your Majesty. No disrespect intended. I’m just trying to get it straight in my head–I’m sure your husband’s–the King’s unfortunate afflication has entirely natural causes. I’m just trying to resolve this inconsistency, though, as to whether or not you were with him on the 16th, or if you were somewhere else. I hear one thing, I hear the other thing–I just want to get it straight in my head, Your Majesty.” You only use “Your Majesty” the first time: the second one should be “Ma’am”! :p:D;) Oh, and that should be “His Majesty’s”, not “the King’s”! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-was-margaret-of-anjou-on-august-16th-of-1453/567862/11 "2011-02-12T00:52:44Z")
You will find the answer in The Royal Tigress, by one David Powlet-Jones. Unfortunately, you will find it difficult to locate a copy, although it sold rather well in its day…