# Where/what is the physical infrastructure for huge cloud servers, Microsoft, Google, Amazon Web, eg? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495 "2015-10-13T00:19:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/1 "2015-10-13T00:19:24Z")
A lot of them are listed here, in a shopping comparison page: [https://www.cloudorado.com](https://www.cloudorado.com) I’d like to _see_ the stuff: --you know, photos: of computers? or photos of buildings upon buildings of computers? Gigantic monoliths in the desert? Or are they not publicized for security reasons? I’m also interested in Amazon’s warehouses, but they hold things that are not services or computational space, so that’s another project. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/2 "2015-10-13T00:48:52Z")
These companies, as well as government agencies, have huge buildings filled with computers called data centers. From the outside, data centers look like most any other R&D or high-quality warehouse building - a big masonry box with few windows and doors. Mechanically, however, data centers are monsters. They usually have tremendous power supply systems, often from two different electric supply networks coming from two different directions. They also have extremely powerful HVAC systems pumping out lots and lots of cool air to cool all of those computer servers. Usually, there are redundant HVAC systems. In addition to electricity and HVAC, the buildings usually have huge backup generators that are able to supply power if one or both electricity supplies shuts off. In short, data centers look like warehouses, but cost 10 to 20 times as much to build due to the large and redundant mechanical systems. Physically, the buildings don’t have to be that large - probably not as large as you envision, based on your questions. Computer hardware is getting smaller and smaller all the time. One data center I’m familiar with has filled up with all of the computing and storage power originally envisioned about 15 years ago. But because new systems are so mush smaller, the building is only about one-third physically filled up. They have added electrical and HVAC capacity to allow additional computers to be added, and the operator isn’t sure he will ever physically fill the building since it all keeps getting smaller. Do a google image search for “data centers” and you’ll see lots of pics. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/3 "2015-10-13T01:27:13Z")
Yes, I remember–and kind of had a vague picture (there are pictures)–the NSA facility recently built out West somewhere. Consumes the electrical power or some cities, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/4 "2015-10-13T01:32:22Z")
[Here](https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/) is a Google website that lists their data centers and provide photos of each. Note in particular the one in Hamina, Finland. It’s converted from a paper mill and is cooled by seawater from the Gulf of Finland. And note that even though these buildings are massive and require huge investments, only a very small number of people actually work in them. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/5 "2015-10-13T01:56:38Z")
Oregon’s got a [bunch](http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2015/09/facebook_greenlights_third_pri.html) of them. That article is announcing Facebook’s third one in Prineville. From the article: > [@](#): > > Since data centers can be anywhere, they have enormous negotiating leverage with small communities and use that leverage to win large tax deals. That’s why Facebook and Apple (both in Prineville), along with Google (The Dalles) and Amazon (Morrow County) are all building rural data centers. ---
**Author:** ![Huvudtvatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Huvudtvatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huvudtvatt)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/6 "2015-10-13T09:34:13Z")
[Here](https://www.facebook.com/LuleaDataCenter/videos/745326888869335/) is a virtual tour of facebook’s new data center in Luleå, Sweden. It’s a promotional video from facebook and they make a big deal about their use of renewable energy but you get a good picture of what it looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/7 "2015-10-13T13:53:32Z")
I understand that a lot of them are in the Pacific Northwest, due to cheap electricity and plentiful water for cooling. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/8 "2015-10-13T14:10:47Z")
I read an article several years ago that talked about how being close to electrical sources was a major consideration for Google data centers. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/9 "2015-10-13T14:38:07Z")
Here’s Google stuff in Iowa: [**Data Center Knowledge**](http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/12/02/in-iowa-a-field-becomes-a-huge-google-server-farm/), although I personally wouldn’t call 1000 acres a ‘field’. _The 1,000 acre property, located amid farmland about four miles south of Google’s initial facility in Council Bluffs, was purchased in 2007 to provide expansion space. In 2011 the land was vacant. But that has changed dramatically as the search giant adds capacity. In early 2013 the first two phases of data center space were completed. Photos from Google Maps in fall of 2013 show three additional buildings have been added, while more land is being cleared for future construction, which appears to include space for at least three more data center facilities._ … _Council Bluffs is one of five locations across the U.S. where Google is building out massive data center hubs to power its network of Internet services. The others are in North Carolina, South Carolina, Oklahoma and Oregon. These sites were chosen in 2006 and 2007, and saw a preliminary round of construction in which Google built one or perhaps two large server farms. But the company is now pumping more than $2 billion per quarter into a global data center construction program._ I don’t get where Google/Alphabet finds all it’s money, unless from interest and investment elsewhere, since it’s core business is advertising, and although most people use Google services, they don’t buy enough stuff from advertisers to pay for all this… If the capitalist/advertising model falters just once, wouldn’t it start to unravel ? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/10 "2015-10-13T14:47:45Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > I read an article several years ago that talked about how being close to electrical sources was a major consideration for Google data centers. Yeah, the power consumption is astounding. So, electricity is the secondary consideration after internet connection capability. Price per KW is very important. Having two separate electric feeds, from two different substations, from two different directions, from two separate providers (if possible) are all considerations. After that, rural, or at least outer-suburban, locations offer cheaper land. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/11 "2015-10-13T14:50:05Z")
They should look into Quebec. Cheap hydropower, they could sell the heat they extract for central heating, and outside of NSA jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/12 "2015-10-13T14:50:52Z")
\*Can \*a data center be “anywhere”? Seems like putting it in the middle of nowhere will increase latency issues for the majority of users. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/13 "2015-10-13T15:14:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Here](https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/) is a Google website that lists their data centers and provide photos of each. Note in particular the one in Hamina, Finland. It’s converted from a paper mill and is cooled by seawater from the Gulf of Finland. > > And note that even though these buildings are massive and require huge investments, only a very small number of people actually work in them. > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > I understand that a lot of them are in the Pacific Northwest, due to cheap electricity and plentiful water for cooling. It doesn’t seem so, at least by Google. (Great cite, BTW). Also, isn’t electricity bought on spot market? (Obviously this is in general a hijack.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/14 "2015-10-13T15:51:19Z")
A data center’s electricity demands are very steady over a long period of time. (Probably more steady than most residential or business customers.) So it would make sense to negotiate a long-term contract with the power plants for electricity, rather than relying on the spot market. Also, there are transmission losses when electricity is transported over long distances, so it pays to locate the data center close to the power plant. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/15 "2015-10-13T15:52:59Z")
Whether latency matters will depend on the nature of the work the servers are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/16 "2015-10-13T16:01:41Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > They should look into Quebec. Cheap hydropower, they could sell the heat they extract for central heating, and outside of NSA jurisdiction. You don’t seriously think that the NSA lets national borders stop it? They have their tentacles _everywhere_. And even if they did respect borders, they can inspect any traffic that crosses into the US. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/17 "2015-10-13T16:08:06Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/18 "2015-10-13T16:09:07Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > A lot of them are listed here, in a shopping comparison page: [https://www.cloudorado.com](https://www.cloudorado.com) > > Gigantic monoliths in the desert? More often in cold northern areas than in the desert because of the cooling costs. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/19 "2015-10-13T16:17:35Z")
Another point not yet mentioned is that theses data centers often use custom designed server hardware. Rather than using off the shelf stuff, it is optimized for the company and work at hand - just to squeeze out that last bit of power and efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495/20 "2015-10-13T16:34:25Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > They should look into Quebec. Cheap hydropower, they could sell the heat they extract for central heating, and outside of NSA jurisdiction. Microsoft has 2 new data centres coming online in the next 90 days, one in Toronto and one in Quebec City. Data residency is part of the reason for the Canadian locations, but it does not address data sovereignty. The question remains if a US based company can refuse a court order if the data resides out of the country. [Microsoft is currently fighting a court battle.](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-08/the-98-6-billion-e-mail) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-what-is-the-physical-infrastructure-for-huge-cloud-servers-microsoft-google-amazon-web-eg/734495.md?page=2)