# Where will the thugs be in 20 years...40 years?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 21, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959 "2006-01-21T03:56:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/21 "2006-01-22T01:11:51Z")
Maybe they’ll win $100,000 in the Lotto and discover karma from Carson Daly.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/22 "2006-01-22T01:27:22Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> You’re still trying to predict that all of those you see have only one path to follow.
>
> Hippies were perceived at the time as engaging in negative and destructive behavior. Not all of them, or even a sizable percentage, are today in PETA or protesting nuclear power. (Neither of those choices, by the way, are negative or destructive, they are simply beliefs. How many old hippies are still blowing up ROTC buildings?) Do you truly believe that the only interests the “Males in baggy pants, no shirts, and an apparent total disinterest in learning the skills to succeed in our society” have is “shooting each other and sucking from the government sow”?
>
> Isn’t it more likely that they simply are young? That they will learn about life, and from life, and will change as they grow? Yes, sadly, some will not. Some will choose a destructive path. But not all, **Evil One** , not even most.
Statistically speaking you’re a bit off base, well except about changing, everyone changes to a degree as time passes. But statistically speaking the less educated are more likely to end up incarcerated, those with significant criminal history are more likely to die at a younger age, those who abuse certain types of drugs are more likely to end up unhealthy and etc.
There’s always been a class of people who, in youth, were do-nothing failures. And ultimately it **is** a permanent underclass, I’m honestly surprised the OP didn’t recognize that as he typed it. “Will it create a permanent underclass?” It _already_ is a permanent underclass.
There’s a difference between people who ultimately come from good roots (like a huge number of the hippies) and are just “drifting” or “unfocused” or “wild” as youths versus people that come from homes that breed lack of respect or understanding for advancing oneself, people that come from neighborhoods where you’re expected to live and die right in that same area and aren’t truly expected to do any better educationally or financially than your parents.
I’m not sure which the OP is talking about. The guys who are just playing the gangsta thing as part of their reckless or “misspent” youth have a decent chance of coming out okay, but there’s a lot of people who aren’t just spending their youth that way, they’re paving the way for the rest of their lives.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/23 "2006-01-22T01:43:10Z")
Well as an example the Crips were started in the late 1960s and the founders are all in their 50s now. Raymond Washington died, Tookie Williams ended up dead on death row. However Jimel Barnes (who is now 52) works as a personal trainer. I don’t know if you’ve read the book ‘monster’ by Sanyika Shakur but he was a gang member from 1975 to around 1985. He is over 40 now. I think he settled down with his wife and is still in & out of prison. His brother who was also a gang member and over 40 now settled down too and worked at a fast food restaurant.
There have always been thugs. Its more of a question of what happened to them to see what will happen to the current thugs.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/24 "2006-01-22T02:39:54Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#):
>
> Well as an example the Crips were started in the late 1960s and the founders are all in their 50s now. Raymond Washington died, Tookie Williams ended up dead on death row. However Jimel Barnes (who is now 52) works as a personal trainer. I don’t know if you’ve read the book ‘monster’ by Sanyika Shakur but he was a gang member from 1975 to around 1985. He is over 40 now. I think he settled down with his wife and is still in & out of prison. His brother who was also a gang member and over 40 now settled down too and worked at a fast food restaurant.
>
> There have always been thugs. Its more of a question of what happened to them to see what will happen to the current thugs.
The guy who wrote the book “Monster” is a good example of how most guys that are “real” thugs don’t really reform. He wrote a bestselling book, had a comfortable lifestyle and money to spare but he still is in and out of prison over smaller offenses.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/25 "2006-01-22T02:41:15Z")
Sorry, hit submit before I meant to do so.
What’s interesting about the author of Monster is that he even recognizes the destructive and unpleasant nature of his lifestyle. But it seems he continues to get in trouble with the police. Doesn’t it make sense that once someone acknowledges that flawed nature of their ways, they would change them? Yeah, it does. But once you’ve lived with a certain mindset and a certain way for such a long period of time, it’s very easy to fall into old habits.
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### Author:  [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/26 "2006-01-22T06:43:47Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> one will be the ticket-taker at the Ivar Theater on Saturday night;
Wow, that’s a real cold smile.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/27 "2006-01-22T08:33:04Z")
> [@Evil One](#):
>
> Maybe it’s my imagination, but there seems to be more of them than ever.
The rate of violent crime has been declining continuously since 1991. [http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm](http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm) By now, it has declined to mid-1970s levels.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/28 "2006-01-22T15:18:16Z")
> [@stpauler](#):
>
> Wow, that’s a real cold smile.
I’m glad somebody got it. 🙂 I was listening to that the other night.
**Martin** , the OP is painting with as broad a brush as possible. Of course there are some who will always be thugs; no one is denying that. But many, even most, even a vast majority, are simply going through a phase and will wind up being (to various degrees) productive members of society.
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### Author:  [@Ty\_Cobb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ty_Cobb)
#### Post date: [January 23, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-will-the-thugs-be-in-20-years-40-years/340959/29 "2006-01-23T01:48:18Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> Oh, man, who knows where any of us will be in 20 years? When I was 28, I didn’t expect to today have a good job, decent life, etc. when I am 48. (Though I was not a thug, I was a drifter.)
Well, that certainly explains a lot about you.
In my case it was the reverse. Had a decent job as Donald Trump’s assistant, working hard and getting ulcers. Then I realized the thugs were passing me by. They could be happy with just a couple of heists a day, spending the rest of their time with today’s floozie and a cheap buzz. I applied and was accepted and never looked back. If you can’t beat em, join em. 😃
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