# Where'd Red vs Blue come from, anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495 "2004-11-13T00:57:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![harwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eb8c5e/32.png) [@harwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harwell)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/1 "2004-11-13T00:57:22Z")
For a simple, inoffensive primary color, red sure has suffered some unfortunate associations over the past hundred years or so. First it symbolized the specter of Communism; now, of course, it will forever be identified with mental retardation and insanity. I seem to recall some justification or other for their choice of color from the commies (blood of the workers, or some such), but who decided red should symbolize the GOP (and blue the Dems), and when? I don’t recall the two parties ever being associated with exclusive colors before the 2000 election; now, suddenly, it seems to be everywhere taken for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/2 "2004-11-13T01:01:12Z")
FYI the colour assignment is reversed in the UK. Red is associated with the traditionally left of centre Labour party, and Blue with the right of centre Conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/3 "2004-11-13T01:04:36Z")
[hijack] > [@](#): > > it will forever be identified with mental retardation and insanity > **[We Made The Detective Bad! - Gmod: TTT - Let's Play Gmod - S7E41 - Rooster Teeth](https://roosterteeth.com/)** > > In this Gmod:TTT gameplay, we added a new Traitor Role! The Impersonator! > Bonus rounds start at: 39:09 > New Gmod Changes here ► https://bit.ly/3z8WzLS bwhaahahhaah. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/4 "2004-11-13T01:08:56Z")
IIRC, blue was used for the incumbent party, and red for the challengers, a convention that was used in elections in the 80s and 90s. Thus, in 2000, states going for Gore were colored blue, and those going for Bush were colored red. It was about that time that people started referring to red states and blue states (Hillary Clinton praised Bush’s actions on 9/11 in terms of his helping a blue state; that was one of the first times I remember seeing it used with that meaning). This year, the red = Republican and blue = Democratic was entrenched, so the colors didn’t switch like they were supposed to. The reason for choosing? Red and blue, of course are obvious choices (since white isn’t that dramatic). Red gives the impression of opposition, which is probably why it was used for the challengers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/5 "2004-11-13T01:11:55Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > FYI the colour assignment is reversed in the UK. Red is associated with the traditionally left of centre Labour party, and Blue with the right of centre Conservatives. Traditionally, blue is the colour of the incumbent party, and red is the colour of the challenging party. In 2000 the challenging party were the Republicans. For whatever reason, the Republicans remained “red” for this election. (Something I learned on the Dope when I asked several weeks ago.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/6 "2004-11-13T01:13:01Z")
Dammit, **RealityChuck**! ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/7 "2004-11-13T04:51:10Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > it will forever be identified with mental retardation and insanity. It will? Why? Who? What? Where? When! ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/8 "2004-11-13T05:10:12Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > IIRC, blue was used for the incumbent party, and red for the challengers, a convention that was used in elections in the 80s and 90s. Cite? I have a cite to the contrary: [NY Times](http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/redblue.php) > [@](#): > > …Five years later, in her book “My Story,” Geraldine A. Ferraro recalled watching her 1984 vice presidential bid founder on the television screen. Mr. Reagan’s victory this time around was rendered in both flavors. “One network map of the United States was entirely blue for the Republicans,” she wrote. “On another network, the color motif was a blanket of red.”… > > …Time magazine had favored Democratic red and Republican white in the 1976 election between Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford, then reversed those colors for Reagan and Carter in 1980. By 1988, the magazine was using Republican blue and Democratic red, and it stayed with that motif even through the 2000 election, which has colorized the nation’s political language in precisely the opposite way… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/9 "2004-11-13T06:58:17Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > For a simple, inoffensive primary color, red sure has suffered some unfortunate associations over the past hundred years or so. First it symbolized the specter of Communism; now, of course, it will forever be identified with mental retardation and insanity. Political potshots like this are not permitted in the General Questions forum. That is a rule violation. Pissing off 51% of the people who might know the answer to your question is not a rule violation _per se_, but it’s not a particularly wise policy either. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/10 "2004-11-13T07:20:25Z")
A couple more old cites: USA Today, Nov 5, 1992 A landslide ‘is in eye of the beholder’ > [@](#): > > Yet USA TODAY, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The Washington Times and several columnists and TV pundits did use the word "landslide’’ to describe Clinton’s victory. > > "I scratched my head at that,’’ says Jim Naureckas of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting. "I think it shows the lack of historical memory pundits have. … They’re a lot more excited because they see a lot more blue states than red states.’’ Boston Globe, Oct 16, 1988 Bush now appears unbeatable > [@](#): > > What made matters worse for Dukakis in this potential electoral landslide was the visual impact on nationwide television of the map of the ABC News/ Washington Post poll. It gave Bush 220 solid electoral votes and 185 leaning his way. As a result, it appeared that most of the United States was covered in shades of red (for Bush), with only a tiny smattering of states covered in blue for Dukakis. It reminded viewers of the map that depicted the election-night landslide for Reagan over Mondale four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![harwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eb8c5e/32.png) [@harwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harwell)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/11 "2004-11-13T18:22:43Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > Political potshots like this are not permitted in the General Questions forum. That is a rule violation. Sorry, thought it was a self-evident proposition, like “circles will forever be associated with roundness”. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/12 "2004-11-13T18:44:23Z")
Political colours… Red as both ‘conservative’ and ‘incumbent’ still seems odd to me… perhaps because in Canada a serious dark blue is the traditional colour of the Progressive Conservatives (the traditional big-business conservatives). Red in Canada is Liberal (not incidentally, they’ve been using the same shade of red as on the national flag). The old associaltion of Red with Communism seems to be pretty much gone. The Reform Party (the populist social conservatives most like the US Republicans) were using a dark green, but this never quite gelled. They changed their name to Canadian Alliance and colours to red and blue, then took over the Progressive Conservatives and went with mostly blue. The NDP (the democratic socialist party) has traditionally used an attention-getting orange, though in the last election they used orange and apple-green (perhaps in an attepmnt to attract Green votes). The Greens use, uh, green. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/13 "2004-11-13T23:25:53Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > Sorry, thought it was a self-evident proposition, like “circles will forever be associated with roundness”. [Moderator hat ON] Then you’d be thinking incorrectly. If the words **retarded** and **insanity** are your idea of describing half the people in the United States who voted in the past election, then you need to post your rants in the proper place, The BBQ Pit. This is GQ. Ask questions without the added baggage. [Moderator hat off[/] ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/14 "2004-11-14T15:18:52Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > For a simple, inoffensive primary color, red sure has suffered some unfortunate associations over the past hundred years or so. First it symbolized the specter of Communism; now, of course, it will forever be identified with mental retardation and insanity. I seem to recall some justification or other for their choice of color from the commies (blood of the workers, or some such), but who decided red should symbolize the GOP (and blue the Dems), and when? I don’t recall the two parties ever being associated with exclusive colors before the 2000 election; now, suddenly, it seems to be everywhere taken for granted. Earlier thread on the same topic: [Red/Blue state coloration?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282600) I believe that the designations “Red America” and “Blue America” were coined by David Brooks in his article “One Nation, Slightly Divisible: A Report from ‘Red’ and ‘Blue’ America,” which appeared in the December 2001 issue of _The Atlantic Monthly_. Brooks described the networks’ electoral maps from Election Night 2000 as the basis for his designations. One recent [review](http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2004/03/) describes it as “the article that spawned a million Red America vs. Blue America clichés.” ---
**Author:** ![iwakura43](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de0a6/32.png) [@iwakura43](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iwakura43)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/15 "2004-11-14T19:08:21Z")
Color me dumbfounded. I thought red was always the color the Republican party, and blue for the Democrats 😕 Of course, 2000 is the first election I can remember vividly; I think most under-20’s would think the color-party association had always been that way. ---
**Author:** ![harwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eb8c5e/32.png) [@harwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harwell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/16 "2004-11-15T04:43:38Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It will? Why? Who? What? Where? When! Because red is now associated with George Bush’s victory, and anybody who voted for George Bush is either retarded or insane (OK, OK…_OR_ worth over $10 million.) ---
**Author:** ![harwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eb8c5e/32.png) [@harwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harwell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/17 "2004-11-15T04:52:38Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > Because red is now associated with George Bush’s victory, and anybody who voted for George Bush is either retarded or insane (OK, OK…_OR_ worth over $10 million.) Sorry! Sorry! Just saw the moderator’s most recent post–let me make it clear that is JUST my opinion. [Cue Galileo, muttering before the inquistion: “But it does”] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/18 "2004-11-15T05:13:11Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > Sorry! Sorry! Just saw the moderator’s most recent post–let me make it clear that is JUST my opinion. Everybody knows it’s your opinion. 😉 It’s just that this particular section of the site is supposed to be for factual answers to questions. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/19 "2004-11-15T07:01:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s just that this particular section of the site is supposed to be for factual answers to questions. OK, so in this quote: “Pissing off 51% of the people who might know the answer to your question is…” by moderator bibliophage, is he claiming that 51% of SMDB readers voted for Bush? From what I’ve seen of SMDB, that seems rather unlikely to me: - there are frequent posts referring to the ‘vastly outnumbered’ conservatives on SMDB. - the towns given in the location field seem to be mainly in bigger cities (where they are real locations, that is). And urban areas went much more heavily for Kerry than Bush. - an obvious pre-req for posting on SMDB is internet access; even now, that is still more common in urban areas than rural. - based on the quality of answers and the breadth of topics that are answered so quickly here, it seems to me that SMDB posters are more educated than the US population at large. And highly educated people voted more Kerry than Bush. So it seems likely that posters on this board did **not** give a majority of their votes to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495/20 "2004-11-15T07:29:35Z")
> [@](#): > > …Time magazine had favored Democratic red and Republican white in the 1976 election between Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford I vaguely remember NBC (I think) saying they were going to use white for John Anderson (an independant) if he won any states and red & blue for the Dems & GOP (though I don’t remember which for which). > [@](#): > > Because red is now associated with George Bush’s victory, and anybody who voted for George Bush is either retarded or insane (OK, OK…OR worth over $10 million.) Gee, I’m 0 for 3! > [@](#): > > From what I’ve seen of SMDB, that seems rather unlikely to me **Color me pissed off!** 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whered-red-vs-blue-come-from-anyway/274495.md?page=2)