# Wherefor "Superman" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661 "2003-01-24T18:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grither](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grither/32/425_2.png) [@Grither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grither)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/1 "2003-01-24T18:10:40Z")
I apologize in advance if this question has been asked-and-answered already. I searched the archives, I really did, but didn’t find anything. Okay, so we all know that there’s a comic book character named Superman. And I think it’s also fairly well accepted that “superman” is a noun used to describe someone who is of extraordinary strength or acheivement, as in the phrase “I’m no superman.” So, my question is which of these usages came first. Did the generic term spring from the character, or was it the other way around? [M-W.com](http://M-W.com) claims that its etymology comes from the German _Übermensch_, but I was wondering if the word “superman” was in common usage before the popularization of the comic book. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/2 "2003-01-24T18:14:03Z")
Then the question is “Whence Superman?” I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Grither](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grither/32/425_2.png) [@Grither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grither)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/3 "2003-01-24T18:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bup \* > \*\*Then the question is “Whence Superman?” > \*\* Ooh. Good catch. I should know better than to try to sound clever by using old words here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/4 "2003-01-24T18:20:10Z")
The OED give a first cite for “superman” from George Bernard Shaw’s “Man and Superman” in 1903. The comic book didn’t debut until 1938. I doubt it was in “common” usage before 1938, but it was used. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/5 "2003-01-24T18:23:42Z")
Yep, it was good ol’ Friedrich Nietzsche who popularized the term in the late 19th century. The German word “Ubermench” passed into English as “Superman”. Thus you have, for example, George Bernard Shaw’s 1903 play “Man and Superman.” So the word “Superman” was around for a long time before the Man of Steel. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/6 "2003-01-24T20:51:45Z")
Could make an interesting thread: what other superhero names predated the comics? “Batman” = an army officer’s servant. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/7 "2003-01-24T21:31:44Z")
Many: Flash Atom Green Lantern Avengers Hulk Human Torch (as a carnival act) Punisher Cable Angel Beast Cyclops The Defenders Giant Man (sideshow) Iron Man (as in Lou Gehrig) Spirit Thing Heap Vision Vigilante ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/8 "2003-01-25T00:00:45Z")
Don’t forget **Ninja**. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/9 "2003-01-25T00:07:35Z")
Green Lantern? Was that a nickname for something, or did lanterns burn green somehow. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_hermes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@dr\_hermes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_hermes)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/10 "2003-01-25T00:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daniel \* > \*\*Green Lantern? Was that a nickname for something, or did lanterns burn green somehow. \*\* ``` This is just a vague memory, but I believe railroad workers would carry a green lantern to indicate everything was okay, and hold up a red lantern to show danger or trouble. Presumably they used colored filters they could slip over the lense. ``` ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/11 "2003-01-25T00:42:13Z")
Interestingly, probably because of Superman, the word/prefix ‘super’ has virtually lost it’s orginal meaning of ‘above’ (infact I’ve noticed people tend to use the prefix ‘preter’ where once thewy would of used ‘super’ so that the use is not misunderstood), now it just means something particular good/special, such as in ‘superpowers’ or ‘Super Bowl’, infact in England the exclamation “Super!” means almost the same as “Good!” ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/12 "2003-01-25T00:49:26Z")
Do you have cites for those, Chuck? Are you saying that there was a green lantern sitting on someone’s shelf somewhere in east bumblefuck before the comic or that there was actually someone/something called “The Green Lantern” before the comic? Same with Hulk, Avengers, Punisher…etc. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Dickerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Scott\_Dickerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Dickerson)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/13 "2003-01-25T05:53:51Z")
By the way… the creators of the comic-book Superman, Siegel and Shuster, actually created the name in a (text) story they wrote in the late 1920’s, called “The Superman”. I believe it was about an advanced-evolution type with super-strength and leaping power. I have a big poster of the title illustration for said story–it shows a muscular, shirtless guy leaping down on a crook, and has a THE SUPERMAN logo with something like those familiar curving block letters. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/14 "2003-01-25T07:51:50Z")
Anyone else recall a _Saturday Night Live_ skit with Superman having landed in his little rocket in prewar Germany instead of Kansas? It’s probably been long banned, if not burned, but I recall they called him “Ubermensch”, and his chest insignia was a “U” complete with umlauts. There were newspaper headlines (the old movie spinning sort) about “Ubermensch defeats Allies!” and a reference to Auschwitz that is probably better left unsaid. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/15 "2003-01-25T08:06:00Z")
Hawkeye (James Fenimore Cooper) Green Arrow (traffic lights) Black Widow Robin Daredevil Thing “The Dating Game” has had contestants, active service GI’s, named Captain America and Captain Marvel (though not on the same day’s show; this was in the 70s). ---
**Author:** ![DRomm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DRomm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRomm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefor-superman/150661/16 "2003-01-25T17:43:48Z")
Doc: Iirc, DC did an alternate history with Supes landing in Germany. The SNL skit wasn’t as good (though it was funnier). Still, the whole story is improbable (gosh, improbability in a comic book!) and Larry Niven’s exegesis Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex will help put the alien in perspective. [http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man\_of\_Steel\_Woman\_of\_Kleenex.htm](http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm) . Further aside: While it departs from the comics, the tv show Smallville does a really good job telling the story of a super powered boy coming into his powers. Clark doesn’t learn to fly as a child because he is afraid of heights! His heat vision first manifests itself when he gets horny…