# Wherefore & whither the GOP? (Sept 2010) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 10, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343 "2010-09-10T22:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/1 "2010-09-10T22:01:30Z")
**or, “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?”** Since I was hijacking the [Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12900674#post12900674) thread, I started this one for “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/117): > > > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/114): > > > > Neither, I’d say. As much as people like to complain that the “Democrats appear leaderless”, I don’t see any leaders in the Republican Party, either in the Congress or outside of it. Palin is a vacuum inside a vacuum, and Gingrich hasn’t realized it’s not 1994. Romney is a somewhat shady character to some (I know more than a few Republicans who will stay at home rather than vote for a Mormon), Huckabee is “look at me, I’m Mr. Religion!” and little else, and the list goes on. Dear God, is it going to be Jeb Bush after all? A veritable dynasty of mediocrity? > > If Huckabee emerged as the GOP’s leader, that would signify an important change in the party’s direction, because he’s not just Mr. Religion, he’s also a Huey Long economic populist who might ally with the Dems on many economic issues – a combination that taps a whole new base, as there are lot of Americans who think the same way, and they’re highly unsatisfied with the GOP as it is, dominated by business interests. Pfft. He’s a nitwit who endorsed the “Fair Tax.” With that kind of populism, I’ll take the elitist moderates of the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/2 "2010-09-10T22:06:39Z")
As I said, other thread: > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/115): > > > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/111): > > > > I don’t think the GOP HAS any leadership right now. This is why Obama has to keep on introducing new “opponents” to harass in speeches (Boehner? Really?). [Obama versus who? President making John Boehner a foil](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-boehner-20100910,0,2752608.story) > > And this is a reason to put this pack of wild dogs in Congress in greater numbers how? > > Also, I’m from SW Missouri, which is very hardcore GOP. I laugh at the idea that the GOP don’t have leadership. Maybe you think people like Roy Blunt, John Boehner, & Mitch McConnell aren’t _good_ leaders, but the Republicans follow them because the party follows whatever passes for a leader. Certainly more than the Democrats follow Obama. > > Don’t believe me? Where were all the Republicans smarter than George Bush who stood up to him & stopped the war in Iraq? Where was his 2004 primary challenge from the sensible right? (That’s the point I wrote the GOP off.) The GOP will follow the leader down to hell. > > The Dems aren’t much better–Obama does suffer some disrespect to his youth, but Democrats rolled over for Bush’s war authorization too. Raising the proportion of GOP congressmen will steer the country in the direction Boehner, your “non-leader,” wants. Looks like he’s leading to me. > > Further, it will encourage the GOP’s behavior. Why should these guys be rewarded for the last two years? > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/116): > > Another way of looking at it is that the GOP is led by the dead hand of half-remembered principles & assumptions. That’s not “real leadership” either I suppose. > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/112): > > > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/92): > > > > It is significant that Nixon was the last Republican POTUS elected before movement conservatism took control of the GOP. Apparently, movement conservatism does not equate to fiscal conservatism. > > “Fiscal conservatism” has [del]two[/del] three meanings. The careful, responsible, long-term planning meaning, & the “cut taxes on the rich” meaning–and the “bankrupt the government to destroy the welfare state” subset thereof. > > … > > Consider the Democratic Party’s position. Every time they propose a regulation (like, “Companies selling insurance have to provide it when the customer needs it”) or raise a tax (even back to historic norms), they’re denounced as communists & unAmerican–as aliens in effect. And about a third of the country believes it! After a while, a centrist patriotic party like the Dems gets worn down. > > I’m foolsguinea, & I’m a former GOP voter. I had to learn to stop legitimizing that party.Hardly. This is the fallacy of a two-party system. The GOP screwed up, big. Four years in the wilderness is not long enough. And you can’t blame the moderate Dem establishment for not solving all the nation’s problems in two years as if that’s equivalent to the GOP creating so many problems in 12 years. > > > [@Why SPECIFICALLY do Republicans hate Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-specifically-do-republicans-hate-obama/553181/95): > > > > ] The electorate is pissed, scared, nervous and cranky and will grab onto whoever promises them SOMETHING to make it all better (sounds like my kids when they were toddlers). > > Well, yes, there’s a reason we don’t give toddlers the vote. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/3 "2010-09-10T22:08:57Z")
Also, they **cut taxes** to run higher deficits **while starting a war & raising expenses.** I was raised a Reagan Republican, & I will never vote for those jerks again. So you tell me. What’s keeping you in the party? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/4 "2010-09-10T22:46:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Also, they **cut taxes** to run higher deficits **while starting a war & raising expenses.** I was raised a Reagan Republican, & I will never vote for those jerks again. > > So you tell me. What’s keeping you in the party? I will get flamed for this… The Democrats suck too (but in their own special ways). As I said in the other thread, it was LBJ who taught us to throw a war and put it on the credit card. The Democrats don’t have a spine, while the Republicans don’t have a head. I will vote for individual Democrats at times - but I will not join their party anytime soon. I don’t like Democrat submissions for the Courts. I don’t like the Democrats ways of making everything a Federal issue. I don’t like the Democrats voting record on gun rights. I don’t WANT a national single-payer health care system. We have a two party system in this country, so that leaves this libertarian minded businessman stuck as a registered Republican. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/5 "2010-09-11T00:54:52Z")
The objection to federal health insurance is strange to me. 1. We already have massive public spending on health care. 2. The GOP don’t have the stones to actually make Medicare cheaper: a. “Starve the Beast” was supposed to force a situation where _Republican_ lawmakers found it politically acceptable to make cuts in entitlements; It hasn’t worked. b. Medicare Part D was actually more expensive due to GOP ideology that a private company should be making a profit from a public fund. 3, At least if we have a universal system, we get away from the working public paying for a single-payer system which does not benefit them. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/6 "2010-09-12T00:51:28Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > > [@foolsguinea](#): > > > > Also, they **cut taxes** to run higher deficits **while starting a war & raising expenses.** I was raised a Reagan Republican, & I will never vote for those jerks again. > > > > So you tell me. What’s keeping you in the party? > > I will get flamed for this… > > The Democrats suck too (but in their own special ways). As I said in the other thread, it was LBJ who taught us to throw a war and put it on the credit card. > > The Democrats don’t have a spine, while the Republicans don’t have a head. > > I will vote for individual Democrats at times - but I will not join their party anytime soon. > I don’t like Democrat submissions for the Courts. > I don’t like the Democrats ways of making everything a Federal issue. > I don’t like the Democrats voting record on gun rights. > I don’t WANT a national single-payer health care system. > > We have a two party system in this country, so that leaves this libertarian minded businessman stuck as a registered Republican. I like Liberals on the courts because I like the people represented over the corporations. Republicans make things federal issues too. Democrats have no problem with the 2nd amendment, they just don’t see the need for individual arsenals and military weapons in the hands of the public. And every other civilized nation has a single payer system and they seem to like it. The ONLY reason WE don’t is that the corporate insurance and drug companies don’t like it. Oh, and LBJ could hardly be blamed for Vietnam. Eisenhower got that one underway. Kennedy tried to end it and see what happened to him? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/7 "2010-09-14T17:10:06Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > Democrats have no problem with the 2nd amendment, Don’t even try to tell me you had a straight face while posting this. > [@Mozart1220](#): > > they just don’t see the need for individual arsenals and military weapons in the hands of the public. You mean militia weapons?:rolleyes: It is Democrats who always push for restrictions on any guns, both federally and locally. Remember, it was Democrat sponsored gun bans that eventually lead to the 2 recent SCOTUS rulings overturning them. > [@Mozart1220](#): > > Democrats have no problem with the 2nd amendment, :dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/8 "2010-09-14T17:22:50Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > **or, “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?”** But you acknowledge that all indications are that quite a few folks are planning on doing it in a few weeks, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/9 "2010-09-14T17:22:55Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I will get flamed for this… > > The Democrats suck too (but in their own special ways). As I said in the other thread, it was LBJ who taught us to throw a war and put it on the credit card. > > The Democrats don’t have a spine, while the Republicans don’t have a head. > > I will vote for individual Democrats at times - but I will not join their party anytime soon. > I don’t like Democrat submissions for the Courts. > I don’t like the Democrats ways of making everything a Federal issue. > I don’t like the Democrats voting record on gun rights. > I don’t WANT a national single-payer health care system. > > We have a two party system in this country, so that leaves this libertarian minded businessman stuck as a registered Republican. Why go out of the way to avoid calling the party by its name? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/10 "2010-09-14T17:24:21Z")
The biggest affront to the Second Amendment didn’t come from the Democrats. It was Republicans who abolished the militias that the Second says are so essential. What’s the point of militias if they’re just absorbed into the federal military, and no longer under state control? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/11 "2010-09-14T17:40:26Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You mean militia weapons?:rolleyes: Well, I certainly don’t think the drafters of the 2nd Amendment had things like the Montana Freemen or whatever in mind when they wrote of a “well ordered militia.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/12 "2010-09-14T18:07:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > You mean militia weapons?:rolleyes: > > Well, I certainly don’t think the drafters of the 2nd Amendment had things like the Montana Freemen or whatever in mind when they wrote of a “well ordered militia.” :rolleyes: Apples and oranges. You’re talking about groups of people while I was talking about equipment. In any case, I doubt the drafters had the likes of Jenna Jameson in mind when they wrote the First Amendment, either! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/13 "2010-09-14T18:09:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I certainly don’t think the drafters of the 2nd Amendment had things like the Montana Freemen or whatever in mind when they wrote of a “well ordered militia.” :rolleyes: I didn’t realize you were an “original intent” kind of guy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/14 "2010-09-14T18:19:45Z")
Over the last couple of years, I have been shifting away from Republican. I think the reason I am shifting away, is exactly why some are still embracing it: Social issues. I put my social allegiances on the back burner for years, because I thought that Republicans were the better economic party. The last couple of years has me questioning that they are on my side economically speaking. I am the polar opposite of Republican on social issues. My dad and brothers are Republican because they really hate Obama. My boss is Republican (he claims that he’s Tea Party and Palin all the way, as if there’s a difference) and he routinely talks about the “culture of life” as opposed to the “culture of death”, and lists all the things that make up the culture of life, which are all broadly social issues. So, I am seeing a bit of bigotry in the fam and social issues in the boss. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/15 "2010-09-14T19:00:37Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > My dad and brothers are Republican because they really hate Obama. My boss is Republican (he claims that he’s Tea Party and Palin all the way, as if there’s a difference) and he routinely talks about the “culture of life” as opposed to the “culture of death”, and lists all the things that make up the culture of life, which are all broadly social issues. So, I am seeing a bit of bigotry in the fam and social issues in the boss. Ironically, if the Teabaggers get into power, I’m betting they won’t make any headway at all toward solving the deficit, which they claim is their raison d’etre. Even with control of Congress they simply won’t have the political power. Same thing goes for control of immigration, they won’t do anything about that either. But they sure will be able to explode the deficit with lower taxes and start with the troglodyte social legislation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/16 "2010-09-14T19:40:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …But you acknowledge that all indications are that quite a few folks are planning on doing it in a few weeks, yes? Is that a “neener neener!” or an “Oh, fuck!”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/17 "2010-09-14T19:53:27Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > In any case, I doubt the drafters had the likes of Jenna Jameson in mind when they wrote the First Amendment, either! You might be surprised. Guys are guys, the world over and for all times. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/18 "2010-09-15T13:29:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > …But you acknowledge that all indications are that quite a few folks are planning on doing it in a few weeks, yes? > > Is that a “neener neener!” or an “Oh, fuck!”? It’s more of an observation about the OP’s subtitle, “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” That phrase carries an inference: that there are simply no reasons to vote for the GOP, or, if there are reasons, they are so obscure that they escape the ken of the commentator. This would be an understandable observation if the Democrats were polling huge majorities. “Why,” might someone ask rhetorically, “is anyone voting GOP? Obviously, vast numbers of people can find no reason to vote GOP, and neither can I!” But when the polls predict a large-scale victory for the GOP, when control of the House is widely thought to be a sure-thing switch back to the GOP, then the question becomes a bit blinder. At the least, the tone should change: “Why are all these people voting GOP?” one might ask. That at least captures the honest lack of understanding of the choice, while acknowledging that a large chunk of the electorate is apparently making that choice. “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” simply suggests a stubborn refusal to admit that large numbers of people are planning to vote for the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/19 "2010-09-15T14:45:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > Is that a “neener neener!” or an “Oh, fuck!”? > > It’s more of an observation about the OP’s subtitle, “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” > > That phrase carries an inference: that there are simply no reasons to vote for the GOP, or, if there are reasons, they are so obscure that they escape the ken of the commentator. > > This would be an understandable observation if the Democrats were polling huge majorities. “Why,” might someone ask rhetorically, “is anyone voting GOP? Obviously, vast numbers of people can find no reason to vote GOP, and neither can I!” > > But when the polls predict a large-scale victory for the GOP, when control of the House is widely thought to be a sure-thing switch back to the GOP, then the question becomes a bit blinder. At the least, the tone should change: “Why are all these people voting GOP?” one might ask. That at least captures the honest lack of understanding of the choice, while acknowledging that a large chunk of the electorate is apparently making that choice. > > “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” simply suggests a stubborn refusal to admit that large numbers of people are planning to vote for the GOP. Fair point, but I read the OP as being directed to Republicans: “What’s keeping **you** in the party?” Considering that those Pubs in power the past few years have such a crappy track record and the hard-right Tea Partiers now rising to leadership are obviously even worse. Got any answers to that? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343/20 "2010-09-15T14:54:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Why is anyone still voting for the GOP anyway?” simply suggests a stubborn refusal to admit that large numbers of people are planning to vote for the GOP. Really? It suggests that the OP recognizes that people still vote for the GOP. That is what the “still voting” part means. The only fact is question is why. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherefore-whither-the-gop-sept-2010/553343.md?page=2)