# Wherein I'm gobsmacked by ignorance **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 30, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072 "2009-09-30T04:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/21 "2009-09-30T13:51:24Z")
Ouch. Kind of reminds me that conversation a cellular customer had with his cellular provider about their data roaming rates. (The recording has been taken off YouTube, but there’s a transcript [here](http://consumerist.com/consumer/asinine/transcript-verizon-doesnt-know-how-to-count-220723.php)) It’s surprising how people just don’t deal well with fractions. They do fine with $0.01 - that’s “one cent”, but go beyond two decimal places and some people just go a little bit stupid. I’ve heard the $0.015 = “zero point one-five cents” mistake more than once. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/22 "2009-09-30T13:55:18Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > If I can ask a stupid question, why was it ever necessary to convert seconds into decimal in the first place? There’s a perfectly good system for capturing fractions of a minute - it’s called “seconds”. There’s no advantage in terms of accuracy in converting it to decimals. Call it :45 or .75, three-quarters of a minute is three-quarters of a minute. All that can possibly happen is someone miscalculates. Or, in this case, fails to convert. I admit that’s pretty egregious, but I can’t help feel it’s a least partly a result of including a completely unnecessary step. It’s a question of consistency. You use one way or the other, and the clueless QC tech was mixing them. The KISS principle says you record raw data as mm:ss, and convert as necessary later, FWIW. The matter also dictates the manufacturing instructions get updated. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/23 "2009-09-30T13:55:25Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > As demonstrated by the anecdote. I have no idea what an anecdote is and must assume that since it’s a chemical supply company, you meant to type **antidote**. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/24 "2009-09-30T14:00:51Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’m sorry, why do you record the time in decimal minutes instead of minutes and seconds? Is it for legal reasons? > > Unless there’s a compulsory regulation requiring you to use decimal minutes, you’re using the wrong units. I would guess that if you were to use the result in some sort of calculation based on minutes, it would be easier. I ran into the same issue when I was training for a post office job for the summer after my senior year in high school. The new hires, most who were much older than me, just couldn’t understand why when they punched in, the card showed “08.50” for 8:30 AM. I tried to explain that the .50 represent half past the hour. No one else in the room of about 10 people understood me. Their conclusion: This was the US Post Office’s way of not paying us for our half hour lunch break. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/25 "2009-09-30T14:06:56Z")
This may be a stupid question, but are you absolutely sure that the recording process is set up to expect an entry in decimal minutes? If so, I would suggest that it is whoever designed the recording process that is ignorant, rather than the hapless QC tech. If you’re recording a time in minutes and seconds, having to convert it to decimals seems rather odd. I’ve worked in pharma labs before, and have always recorded times in minutes and seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/26 "2009-09-30T14:11:40Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > This may be a stupid question, but are you absolutely sure that the recording process is set up to expect an entry in decimal minutes? If so, I would suggest that it is whoever designed the recording process that is ignorant, rather than the hapless QC tech. > > If you’re recording a time in minutes and seconds, having to convert it to decimals seems rather odd. I’ve worked in pharma labs before, and have always recorded times in minutes and seconds. Yes, but imagine if you had to add or multiply the results for some unknown purpose. It would be very difficult to do without having everything in decimals. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/27 "2009-09-30T14:18:08Z")
This reminds me of the time that I was at the supermarket and wanted to buy a third of a pound of shrimp. The clerk kept trying to fill the bag with three quarters of a pound. I tried explaining it to him again and again, but he kept insisting that a third and three quarters were the same thing. I finally got him to give me a half pound, being that the extra buck or so was a small price to pay to not have to give this a guy a second grade math lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/28 "2009-09-30T14:18:22Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I would guess that if you were to use the result in some sort of calculation based on minutes, it would be easier. In that case you perform the conversion when you need it for the calculation. May I remind you that the base unit of measure of time is the second, not the minute? The OP himself states > [@GameHat](#): > > Reaction time to the second (+/- 1), damn you! Not to the “centiminute,” not to the “deciminute,” which are nonexisting units, but _to the second_. If you need things to the second, the logical thing to do is record them either in seconds and their usual multipliers (minutes, hours) or in seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/29 "2009-09-30T14:24:45Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > This reminds me of the time that I was at the supermarket and wanted to buy a third of a pound of shrimp. The clerk kept trying to fill the bag with three quarters of a pound. I tried explaining it to him again and again, but he kept insisting that a third and three quarters were the same thing. I finally got him to give me a half pound, being that the extra buck or so was a small price to pay to not have to give this a guy a second grade math lesson. Well, he had a point. 16 isn’t divisible by three, so how can you have a third of a pound? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/30 "2009-09-30T14:31:26Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Well, he had a point. 16 isn’t divisible by three, so how can you have a third of a pound? 😛 That would be a good point, had the scale measured in terms of ounces. But it measured in thousandths of a pound. He knew full well that 0.750 was three quarters, but the concept of 0.333 was beyond him. When I explicitly told him to give me 0.333, he said “That’s the same as three quarters, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/31 "2009-09-30T15:01:05Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > When I explicitly told him to give me 0.333, he said “That’s the same as three quarters, right?” I was going to suggest asking for .333 pounds. How about this: [ul][li]Grab four small items (seasoning packets, coupons, whatever).[/li][li]Tell him that the four items represent one pound.[/li][li]Point to each item and say in turn, ‘One quarter, two quarters, three quarters, four quarters or one pound.’[/li][li]Separate three of the items and say, ‘One quarter, two quarters, three quarters. I have three-quarters of a pound. Do you agree?’[/li][li]Get three more of the items.[/li][li]Tell him that the three items represent one pound.[/li][li]Point to each item and say in turn, ‘One third, two thirds, three thirds or one pound.’[/li][li]Separate three of the items and say, ‘One third, two thirds. I have two-thirds of a pound. Do you agree?’[/li][\*]Point to the three items and the two items and ask if there are the same number of items in each group. ‘Does three equal two?’[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/32 "2009-09-30T15:18:24Z")
**Johnny L.A.** , that didn’t work with my math tutoring students. They were supposed to be able to multiply and divide fractions (they were preparing state exams for police or fire departments), but once I saw how lost they were I made them close the book and we started drawing and coloring pie charts on square-lined paper. Fun times. It took over half an hour for the first one to understand that a fraction can represent a number greater than 1. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/33 "2009-09-30T15:26:35Z")
I was just thinking that it would be a way to show three physical things and two physical things, and that the guy could see that 3 ≠ 2. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/34 "2009-09-30T16:08:23Z")
> [@iftheresaway](#): > > Yeah, I’ve had that conversation about a million times. I also tried a long explanation of why 2 ft. 1 in is not, in fact, 2.1 feet. Of course, I’m usually dealing with middle and high schoolers, so better - but still frustrating sometimes. Blame baseball, where 4 and 2/3rds of an inning is written as ‘4.2 innings’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/35 "2009-09-30T16:14:45Z")
I walked to school as a child. When I was six I was told that the school was ‘a mile and two-tenths’ away from my house. I asked if that was the same as a mile and one-twentieth. (Hey, I was six. Give me a break.) It was explained to me, and I never forgot it. Maybe the QC tech didn’t walk to school. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/36 "2009-09-30T16:30:32Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > Yep, my horrors are confirmed. Thirty years of data. Not once has a reaction time ever been recorded to two decimals amounting more than 0.59. Be careful. It may be cheaper to sterilize the equipment once you have your “accident” than to fix thirty years of bad data… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/37 "2009-09-30T16:56:29Z")
I am terrible at math but at my work I am the math genius and that’s kind of sad. I always track my hours worked to make sure I don’t go overtime. Our time cards record time in and time out, so it’s pretty basic math to add up your hours and minutes worked. My coworkers have no problem adding the hours but get hung up on the minutes. I have been asked many times to help them add up their hours. On top of that the bookkeeper pays us in decimals and I have had people complain to me that the bookkeeper messed up because the minutes and the decimal don’t match. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/38 "2009-09-30T17:06:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > How about this: Actually, you’d be better off with \*\*twelve \*\*small items. Demonstrate 3/4: [ul][li]Divide the 12 items into four groups of three each[/li][li]Separate out three of the 1/4 groups for a total of nine items[/ul][/li]Demonstrate 1/3: [ul][li]Divide the 12 items into three groups of four each[/li][\*]Separate out one of the 1/3 groups for a total of four items[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/39 "2009-09-30T17:07:21Z")
One of the local supermarket’s cash registers now display a diagram of the cash drawer and indicate how many of each coin and bill is needed for giving change. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072/40 "2009-09-30T17:11:31Z")
> [@Shot From Guns](#): > > Actually, you’d be better off with twelve small items. I thought of that, but I thought the fishmonger might be confused by a larger number of items and that simply showing 3 ≠ 2 would work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-im-gobsmacked-by-ignorance/512072.md?page=3)