# Wherein Piper Cub defends the Queen **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 16, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982 "2018-07-16T02:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/1 "2018-07-16T02:54:14Z")
As is the habit chez Pipers, we were chatting about current events today. Mrs Piper mentioned that President Trump had been walking in front of the Queen, which is a big no-no. Piper Cub chirped up, in a tone of outrage: “He was rude to our Queen? He should be exiled! But his buddy presidents in other countries won’t let that happen.” Out of the mouths of babes … 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/2 "2018-07-16T03:33:45Z")
Tell the Cub he’s very astute. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/3 "2018-07-16T03:44:28Z")
Isn’t the Cub old enough to be posting here on his own, by now? Or am I getting him mixed up with some other Doper kid? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/4 "2018-07-16T04:03:52Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/5 "2018-07-16T04:14:08Z")
No doubt the Cub was echoing the sentiments of many of us in the Commonwealth Realms, in regards to the rudeness. I have to agree with **Beckdarek** : very astute indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/6 "2018-07-16T04:25:57Z")
Yep, guys from the Commonwealth, we are totally embarrassed. Trump messed up. Even I knew you walk a step or 2 behind a monarch. He’s a real dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/7 "2018-07-16T05:29:43Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Yep, guys from the Commonwealth, we are totally embarrassed. Trump messed up. Even I knew you walk a step or 2 behind a monarch. He’s a real dumbass. I see no good reason why a head of state should walk a couple steps behind a monarch. I don’t think a president should show more deference to a king than he would to another president. If the protocol service of a kingdom insists on this, they’re the ones in the wrong, and they should adapt their antiquated rules to the modern world. And the protocol service of the republic should make clear that there’s no way they’re going to aknowledge that their elected head of state has a somehow lower status by making him walk deferently two steps behind. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/8 "2018-07-16T05:40:06Z")
“Our Queen”? Didn’t we fight (and win) a freaking war so that we would NOT have to defer to the British monarch? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/9 "2018-07-16T05:45:09Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > “Our Queen”? Didn’t we fight (and win) a freaking war so that we would NOT have to defer to the British monarch? The Queen is the Head of State of Canada. **Northern Piper** is in Canada, as is his son, Piper Cub. Therefore, it is entirely appropriate for both **Northern Piper** and Piper Cub to refer to QEII as, “our Queen.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/10 "2018-07-16T05:54:29Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I see no good reason why a head of state should walk a couple steps behind a monarch. > > I don’t think a president should show more deference to a king than he would to another president. If the protocol service of a kingdom insists on this, they’re the ones in the wrong, and they should adapt their antiquated rules to the modern world. And the protocol service of the republic should make clear that there’s no way they’re going to aknowledge that their elected head of state has a somehow lower status by making him walk deferently two steps behind. How about good manners and respecting someone while you’re visiting her country. Trump is an idiot who thinks nobody knows anything but him. My god, if a visiting head of state came to Whitehouse and dissed him he’d be screaming like a banshee. He’s crude, rude and a big asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/11 "2018-07-16T06:20:47Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And the protocol service of the republic should make clear that there’s no way they’re going to aknowledge that their elected head of state has a somehow lower status by making him walk deferently two steps behind. He wasn’t supposed to walk _behind_ her. As you say, he doesn’t have a lower status than her. In fact, he was meant to go in the more prestigious spot by walking directly next to the guard of honour (the queen’s gestures were her trying to budge him over into that spot). They were supposed to walk side by side and he…got lost. (I find his inability to round a corner without becoming confused far more interesting than some tabloid-invented protocol mishap.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/12 "2018-07-16T06:27:51Z")
**Bec** k, while I agree that more respect ought to have been shown to QEII by Mr. Trump, I’m sure that QEII just shrugged it off. After all, she’s been in the “Head of State” business for sixty-plus years, while he’s been in it for less than two years. She, being the diplomat that she is, I am sure that she will forgive him his transgression. I would hope that Mr. Trump realizes that QEII has gone through a number of UK Prime Ministers; a number of Australian, New Zealand, and Canadian Prime Ministers, and eleven US presidents. She–or perhaps, her position–remains the rock upon which Commonwealth political systems are based, and she’s no slouch, constitutionally and politically. While I am sure that she greeted Mr. Trump politely, and enjoyed tea with him, I am equally sure that she was thinking, “It really is taking longer than we thought.” Real Dopers know what I mean. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/13 "2018-07-16T06:30:57Z")
I did wonder what all the gestering was for. He walks all loosey-goosey sometimes. It reminds me of my husbands 88 yo.Aunt. She gets lost in my pantry. If I go out with her I keep my hands near her. I expect her to walk into traffic one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/14 "2018-07-16T06:37:57Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > **Bec** k, while I agree that more respect ought to have been shown to QEII by Mr. Trump, I’m sure that QEII just shrugged it off. After all, she’s been in the “Head of State” business for sixty-plus years, while he’s been in it for less than two years. She, being the diplomat that she is, I am sure that she will forgive him his transgression. > > I would hope that Mr. Trump realizes that QEII has gone through a number of UK Prime Ministers; a number of Australian, New Zealand, and Canadian Prime Ministers, and eleven US presidents. She–or perhaps, her position–remains the rock upon which Commonwealth political systems are based, and she’s no slouch, constitutionally and politically. While I am sure that she greeted Mr. Trump politely, and enjoyed tea with him, I am equally sure that she was thinking, “It really is taking longer than we thought.” > > Real Dopers know what I mean. 😃 Oh, I agree. I bet she’s seen it all. Trump is old enough to know better. I am sure He was briefed and told exactly how to proceed. He just doesn’t care. He’s just like that giant baby Trump balloon, a spoiled toddler. It’s just embarrassing. And now we get to live through the Putin visit. Oh, joy. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/15 "2018-07-16T11:01:10Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I see no good reason why a head of state should walk a couple steps behind a monarch. > > I don’t think a president should show more deference to a king than he would to another president. If the protocol service of a kingdom insists on this, they’re the ones in the wrong, and they should adapt their antiquated rules to the modern world. And the protocol service of the republic should make clear that there’s no way they’re going to aknowledge that their elected head of state has a somehow lower status by making him walk deferently two steps behind. How about showing good manners towards a 92 year old welcoming you into her home? Or do Presidents get to throw all common decency out of the window? There’s no requirement for a visiting president to walk two steps behind the Queen, OR bow to her, but diplomacy between close allies at least means showing a little respect, no? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/16 "2018-07-16T12:49:23Z")
Yeah, there is no requirement that he defer to her by rank (thus it’s absurd to criticize him for not bowing), but OTOH there is an expectation that if you are someone’s guest you will recognize that it’s \*their \*house and not act like you own the place. To be fair I believe he got a bit lost in that nobody was actually leading him by the hand as to where to go and what to do next. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/17 "2018-07-16T13:08:54Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I see no good reason why a head of state should walk a couple steps behind a monarch. > > I don’t think a president should show more deference to a king than he would to another president. I’m rather astounded by the suggestion that Trump should not be bound by rules of etiquette. The clod thinks he’s superior to _all_ women, but he calls them “Mrs” politely in public, rather than “bitch,” no? Do those defending Trump’s incivility think or wish prior Presidents behaved similarly? I Youtubed a little just now and, in a brief skim, saw no such rudeness. GWB—unlike The Trump—was invited to dine with Her Majesty and the Brits had the good grace to play the melody to _My Country 'Tis of Thee_ as the two Heads of State walked into the banquet hall. (Yes I know: just want to see how many Dopers think septimus is an idiot.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/18 "2018-07-16T13:10:52Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > He wasn’t supposed to walk _behind_ her. As you say, he doesn’t have a lower status than her. In fact, he was meant to go in the more prestigious spot by walking directly next to the guard of honour (the queen’s gestures were her trying to budge him over into that spot). They were supposed to walk side by side and he…got lost. Well, I was responding to someone stating that one should walk two steps behind a monarch, so I assumed it was what was expected of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/19 "2018-07-16T13:17:03Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > How about showing good manners towards a 92 year old welcoming you into her home? Or do Presidents get to throw all common decency out of the window? Common decency doesn’t include subservience. And a president isn’t an ordinary individual. He’s representing his country, whether he’s 24 yo or 92 yo, and so shouldn’t be treated as less than equal. > [@](#): > > There’s no requirement for a visiting president to walk two steps behind the Queen, OR bow to her, but diplomacy between close allies at least means showing a little respect, no? As I wrote previously, responding to someone stating that one should walk to steps behind a monarch, I assumed that was what was expected of him and that he was supposedly wrong because he dared to walk in front of the queen rather than behind, as a commoner who knows his place should. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982/20 "2018-07-16T13:40:20Z")
One of my favorite Facebook memes of the day- Queen Elizabeth with a huge mischievous grin and the caption “It wasn’t tea”. If only it was true. This trip was Donald at his worst- rude, uninformed, lazy, crass, ill-mannered, vulgar, shifty… the adjectives could go on all day. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-piper-cub-defends-the-queen/817982.md?page=2)