# Wherein Scylla admonishes the left wing for casting Plame upon Rove **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737 "2006-08-30T01:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/401 "2006-09-09T13:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] Again, no. You tried to force me to substantiate a position using Title 18, and stubbornly refused to acknowledge the relevance of Title 50, which was the actual basis for my argument. This is not a dismissal of Title 18, which is clearly a statute, and is clearly being considered by the special prosecutor. I have not to this point stated an opinion as to whether Title 18, Section 753 has been violated by Libby, Rove, or anyone else. I have only stated that it is likely that _ **a** _ crime has been committed by Rove, and cited Title 50 as the basis for this opinion. [/quote] We’re going in circles. You’ve supported the relevance of your statute, and I’ve accepted it. Your original claim was that your statute applies because we were talking about Rove, not Libby and that is a bullshit argument and I did not accept it until you supported it properly. > [@](#): > > These are legal citations, Scylla, and of apparent equal weight as they both come from the USC. If these were scientific citations, it would be necessary to consider each fact and attempt to integrate it into the hypothesis. However, only one law needs to be broken to make a criminal. I’m not so sure. Is your statute punishable? Title 18 is. > [@](#): > > That was poor choice of words on my part. I should have asked about the ethical nature of following a perceived leak with a deliberate leak. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/402 "2006-09-09T13:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I identified three earlier; I think I got that from them. [/quote] > [@](#): > > And AFAIK, you’re the only one who doesn’t accept MediaMatters as a good cite. :rolleyes: I cited mediamatters. It is a cite. > [@](#): > > Besides, they back up their assertions with cites, as you’ve probably noticed when you were trying to debunk them. I’ve already demonstrated them to be unreliable in at least one circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/403 "2006-09-09T13:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I’m not so sure. Is your statute punishable? Title 18 is. [/QUOTE] If you had read it, you would know that Statute 50, dealing with National Defense, provides for sentences of imprisonment, with sentences to be served consecutively, and also notes that such crimes may also be punishable under Statute 18, dealing with Criminal Procedure. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/404 "2006-09-09T14:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] You really haven’t been rebutting it. You’ve said he was her boss for a year. You’ve attempted to rebut one of his statements and challenged me to produce evidence that other people knew about her status. [/quote] Maybe you’re confusing ‘rebuttal’ with ‘refutation.’ :rolleyes: I’ve pointed out that: 1. Rustman was Plame’s boss: a) for a year b) in the 1980s c) which was a decade before the period in question d) during which there’s no evidence that he had further professional association with her e) so he had no way _related to his CIA status_ to know whether her neighbors knew jack shit about her CIA status f) yet he said they did g) and neither he nor anyone else has been able to produce a neighbor that claims they knew, before this whole business went public, h) despite three neighbors, including two next-door neighbors, having been identified who had no clue she was CIA. I’ll let others judge whether that qualifies as a _refutation_, but it damned sure is a _rebuttal_ of any claim that Rustman doesn’t have a credibility problem on account of saying that “ **most** of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee,” as you reminded us back in post #118. **Most.** > [@](#): > > I found six who make the claim, The one you made a big deal about was Cliff May (who wasn’t a friend or neighbor of the Wilsons anyway), but by his own testimony, he seems to say he found out after the Wilson op-ed, when (as I’ve already discussed) Plame’s name and affiliation were being blabbed all aroound town. Who were the other five? (As [the WaPo said back in September 2003](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2003_09/002249.php), "A senior administration official said two top White House officials called at least six Washington journalists and revealed the identity and occupation of Wilson’s wife. That was shortly after Wilson revealed in July that the CIA had sent him to Niger last year to look into the uranium claim and that he had found no evidence to back up the charge. Wilson’s account eventually touched off a controversy over Bush’s use of intelligence as he made the case for attacking Iraq. ``` "Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge," the senior official said of the alleged leak.") ``` > [@](#): > > and have demonstrated neither Wilson nor Plame appear to have been particularly careful, prudent, or hesitant about revealing it, After Novak, you mean? You keep on saying that matters. > [@](#): > > and I have pointed out that the claime that none of the neighbors knew seems to be backed up by interviews with only two specific neighbors which is hardly a quorum. Three, actually. But we’re talking about Rustman’s credibility here, remember? He said that **most** of Plame’s friends and neighbors knew. If this is true, isn’t it odd that the three neighbors that have gone on record _all_ were surprised to learn in Novak’s piece that Plame was CIA - including both of the next-door neighbors? That’s enough (by any standard except yours) to create a put-up-or-shut-up moment for Rustman, to say Rustman should be able to produce one of those friends or neighbors who knew, to demonstrate that he wasn’t just BSing. > [@](#): > > The “she was only his boss for one year” meme seems to originate with Johnson. > Do you have another source for this, or did you make it up? [Rustman.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7739345&postcount=166) 😃 I thought [you were the only one reading the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7755780&postcount=367). Apparently _no one_ is. 😃 (I won’t get on your ass for not reading the whole thread, but you should _at least_ read the posts responding to the things you say. :)) > [@](#): > > My source, Time Magazine : says Fred Rustman "a former CIA official who put in 24 years as a spymaster and was Plame’s boss for a few years, says Plame worked under official cover in Europe in the early 1990s " [Here’s a piece of the Hannity & Colmes transcript, via a real left-wing site](http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2005/cyb20050719.asp): > [@](#): > > Hannity: “Joining us now in a Hannity & Colmes exclusive is Valerie Plame’s one time supervisor at Langley, former CIA senior intelligence officer Fred Rustmann…How long have you known her and for how many years were you her supervisor/colleague?” > Rustmann, former CIA senior intelligence officer: "Well, Valerie went through the – came in as a career trainee into the Agency, and then went through the training program down at the Farm, and I was her first supervisor when she actually had a real job at headquarters, and she worked for me there for **about a year**. > [@Scylla](#): > > As an interesting side note I just noticed this next part "— say, as a U.S. embassy attache — before switching to nonofficial cover a few years later. " > So, Fred says she **did** work as a NOC. Hmmm. So, Rustman says you can be NOC after having been under official cover. Is he reliable, or not? > [@](#): > > The Chicago Trib cites a 20 year veteran saying “the key is the [embassy] address. That is completely unacceptable for an NOC. She wasn’t an NOC, period.” > > Maybe the “veteran” is merely saying that she wasn’t a NOC at the time she worked at the embassy. Well, _yeah_. Maybe he _meant_ it some other way, but that’s all that one can glean from his words. All the rest is reading in. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/405 "2006-09-09T14:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I cited mediamatters. It is a cite. I’ve already demonstrated them to be unreliable in at least one circumstance. [/QUOTE] I’ll step aside and let you argue it out with yourself. Get back to me when you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/406 "2006-09-09T17:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I The relevance is that Joe Wilson going public about that trip in an op-ed doesn’t in any way, shape, or form point to his wife. [quote] > [@](#): > > And I’ve already addressed the complete and total irrelevance of this. > > I’ve already addressed both of these points. You addressed them both, that’s true. You did so poorly. > [@](#): > > You’re citing **Rustman** , a source that only you find credible. A post earlier you concede he’s credible. “Does Rustman know a great deal about undercover work? Yes; never argued to the contrary.” > [@](#): > > And they married a little over a year after they met. And while he may not have been officially authorized to know that she was CIA, by virtue of his positions he’d have to have had all sorts of security clearances. This wasn’t exactly a high-risk disclosure; their relationship was clearly getting pretty serious pretty fast; and there are things you have to tell someone when a relationship is getting serious. She told him on the first kiss, second date. This is a rather blase attitude to her own cover upon which we presume lives were depending. I see no logic in your argument, above. If Armitage was kissed Novak would it be allright for him to tell? > [@](#): > > So, did Wilson ‘out’ her to anyone, before Novakula outed her to the freakin’ _world??_ You may say “not exactly impressive security,” but _did this blow her cover?_ You have no evidence that it did. Yes, I do. I have logic, and cites from Rustman who you concede knows undercover work, we have the Aldritch Ames incident, we have the fact that she appears not to have taken her cover very seriously, the fact that she did not serve abroad after 1997 but worked at Langley, married Wilson, had kids, suffered postpartum depression, etc. etc. > [@](#): > > That’s the issue here, not whether Plame was the ideal CIA agent. Do you think she was a bad agent? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/407 "2006-09-09T17:18:25Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I’ll step aside and let you argue it out with yourself. Get back to me when you’re done. [/QUOTE] No thanks. I already discussed it with Elucidator, and he has not seen fit to challenge my conclusion. If you want to pick it up from there, you may. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/408 "2006-09-09T17:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Maybe you’re confusing ‘rebuttal’ with ‘refutation.’ :rolleyes: I’ve pointed out that: 1. Rustman was Plame’s boss: a) for a year b) in the 1980s c) which was a decade before the period in question d) during which there’s no evidence that he had further professional association with her e) so he had no way _related to his CIA status_ to know whether her neighbors knew jack shit about her CIA status f) yet he said they did g) and neither he nor anyone else has been able to produce a neighbor that claims they knew, before this whole business went public, h) despite three neighbors, including two next-door neighbors, having been identified who had no clue she was CIA. I’ll let others judge whether that qualifies as a _refutation_, but it damned sure is a _rebuttal_ of any claim that Rustman doesn’t have a credibility problem on account of saying that “ **most** of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee,” as you reminded us back in post #118. [/quote] You’ve called into question 1 statement that he made. You wish to project that that rebuttal applies to other unrelated statements even though you conceed he is an expert on undercover work. Your argument does not hold water. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/409 "2006-09-09T19:19:07Z")
He may very well be an expert in undercover work. My doctor is an expert in medicine, but unless he has directly examined me, he is not an expert as to my condition. Similarly, a man who has had limited contact at a great remove in time can hardly be called an “expert” regarding whether or not Ms Plame was a covert agent. Has he offered us any special expertise regarding Ms Plame _specificly_ to her status in the given time frame. Not to my knowledge. Advise. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/410 "2006-09-09T20:28:12Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] He may very well be an expert in undercover work. My doctor is an expert in medicine, but unless he has directly examined me, he is not an expert as to my condition. Similarly, a man who has had limited contact at a great remove in time can hardly be called an “expert” regarding whether or not Ms Plame was a covert agent. Has he offered us any special expertise regarding Ms Plame _specificly_ to her status in the given time frame. Not to my knowledge. Advise. [/QUOTE] He was her boss and spymaster for “a few years.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/411 "2006-09-09T20:29:59Z")
A secret admirer emailed me this: > **[David S. Broder - One Leak and a Flood of Silliness](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/06/AR2006090601648_pf.html)** > > Conspiracy theories flourish in politics, and most of them have no more basis than spring training hopes for the Chicago Cubs. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/412 "2006-09-09T21:12:14Z")
We are, of course, excited to hear that Mr. Broder has an opinion. > [@](#): > > …He was her boss and spymaster for “a few years.”… I take it by your phrasing that you would like to suggest that this is somehow relevent. Of course, the crucial question is _which_ years. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/413 "2006-09-09T21:18:28Z")
Feh, that Washington Post article was an opinion piece with nothing new. Just more sand in the ump’s eyes, the reality remains that this is already old news to the Prosecution, and there is no hint of this changing anything. (this is why I see all **Scylla** ’s efforts so far as just a smoke screen.) [http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/15463796.htm](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/15463796.htm) > [@](#): > > Fitzgerald, he said, had requested that he (Armitage) not talk about his role in the case, a restriction that was lifted only Tuesday. And BTW I can not speak for others, but I am not fixed on Rove at all, if there is anyone whom he needs to apologize it is the President and the Wilson’s, Rove was IMO a “simple” foot soldier in this mess. Armitage though has already apologized: > [@](#): > > Armitage was rueful nonetheless, and disclosed that he had written a letter of resignation as the State Department’s No. 2 official and closest adviser to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell. > > “There wasn’t a day that went by that I didn’t feel that **I let down the president, the secretary of state, the Department of State, my family and friends and for that matter, the Wilsons** ,” he said. > > “I consider myself someone who’s valued the ability to keep state secrets,” he said. “ **This was bad**.” Lets see if the ones that confirmed the leak have the fortitude of resigning because they should ashamed of what they did.. Nah, not holding my breath for that, specially when I think the Vice-president was involved in this. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/414 "2006-09-09T21:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] You addressed them both, that’s true. You did so poorly. [/quote] Cool. I’ll have to use that one myself sometime. > [@](#): > > A post earlier you concede he’s credible. “Does Rustman know a great deal about undercover work? Yes; never argued to the contrary.” Yesterday, you confused _rebut_ with _refute_; today it’s _knowledgeable_ with _credible_. > [@](#): > > She told him on the first kiss, second date. This is a rather blase attitude to her own cover upon which we presume lives were depending. I see no logic in your argument, above. If Armitage was kissed Novak would it be allright for him to tell? I believe I said this before, but I have never tried to claim that Plame was the perfect CIA agent. > [@](#): > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > So, did Wilson ‘out’ her to anyone, before Novakula outed her to the freakin’ world?? You may say “not exactly impressive security,” but did this blow her cover? You have no evidence that it did. > > Yes, I do. I have logic, and cites from Rustman who you concede knows undercover work Rustman doesn’t support you on this. > [@](#): > > we have the Aldritch Ames incident, Not relevant. > [@](#): > > we have the fact that she appears not to have taken her cover very seriously, Nor this. > [@](#): > > the fact that she did not serve abroad after 1997 but worked at Langley, married Wilson, had kids, suffered postpartum depression, etc. etc. None of these things _supports_ your claim that Joe Wilson outed Valerie Plame prior to Novak’s column. But feel free to keep throwing shit at the wall. Eventually some of it might stick, even though if I were you I’d prefer a better choice of decor. > [@](#): > > Do you think she was a bad agent? Why, do I get to give her a spanking? Feel free to start a “was Valerie Plame a good CIA agent or a bad CIA agent?” thread. If I decide the topic interests me, I’ll be there. If not, then I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/415 "2006-09-09T21:47:12Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] No thanks. I already discussed it with Elucidator, and he has not seen fit to challenge my conclusion. If you want to pick it up from there, you may. [/QUOTE] You reached a conclusion in your debate with yourself? Excellent. Kind of you not to provide spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/416 "2006-09-09T21:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] A secret admirer emailed me this: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/06/AR2006090601648\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/06/AR2006090601648_pf.html) [/QUOTE] Oh wow, a Wise Old Broder column. Is that supposed to mean something, other than snooze time? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/417 "2006-09-09T21:54:53Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I believe I said this before, but I have never tried to claim that Plame was the perfect CIA agent. [/quote] But, by all accounts, she **was** very good. So, what does this tell you? The logical conclusion was that she wasn’t very deep undercover at all, and telling Wilson was no big deal. Her undercover status, “no big deal,” according to her own actions. > [@](#): > > Not relevant. Nor this.None of these things _supports_ your claim that Joe Wilson outed Valerie Plame prior to Novak’s column. Nice job handwaving there, Chico. > [@](#): > > Why, do I get to give her a spanking? Answer the question. > [@](#): > > Feel free to start a “was Valerie Plame a good CIA agent or a bad CIA agent?” thread. If I decide the topic interests me, I’ll be there. If not, then I won’t. Feel free to stick a broomstick up your ass sideways. It’s a germaine question. Her competance applies directly her actions. If she’s competant her lack of care concerning her cover tells us something. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/418 "2006-09-09T21:57:22Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] You reached a conclusion in your debate with yourself? Excellent. [/quote] No. With Elucidator. > [@](#): > > Kind of you not to provide spoilers. You can go back and read it if you want. I see no reason why I should reexplain for some ignorant twit who can’t bother to follow the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/419 "2006-09-09T22:04:15Z")
RTF: > [@](#): > > Not relevant. Nor this.None of these things supports your claim that Joe Wilson outed Valerie Plame prior to Novak’s column. Almost slipped by the first time (you are sneaky little guy, aren’t you?.) Please quote me where I make that claim, oh builder of strawmen, twister of words, bearer of false witness, duke of disingenuosity. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/420 "2006-09-09T22:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I take it by your phrasing that you would like to suggest that this is somehow relevent. Of course, the crucial question is _which_ years. [/QUOTE] Well, according to Rustman: > [@](#): > > "Well, Valerie went through the – came in as a career trainee into the Agency, and then went through the training program down at the Farm, and I was her first supervisor when she actually had a real job at headquarters, and she worked for me there for about a year. Since she started at the CIA directly out of college in 1985, that would presumably put it at sometime in the 1985-87 timeframe, depending on how long the trainee/training programs took. IOW, a decade before the events that he claims blew her cover. Which explains why friend **Scylla** believes he could authoritatively say that those things blew her cover: I guess he was at such a remove that he could evaluate impartially these things he knew nothing about in any official capacity. And he would of course know in detail whether her friends and neighbors in 2003 knew she was CIA prior to Novak’s column, despite his CIA career having ended some years previously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737.md?page=22)