# Wherein Scylla admonishes the left wing for casting Plame upon Rove **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737 "2006-08-30T01:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/421 "2006-09-09T22:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] …Nobody thought she was an agent until Wilson blew his mouth off. In fact, she was portrayed as an “analyst,” or even a glorified secretary. Wilson blew the undercover thing. No question about that, at all… [/QUOTE] To hear is to obey! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/422 "2006-09-09T22:47:05Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] You’ve called into question 1 statement that he made. [/quote] You betcha. He made a pretty extreme claim that, if true, should have been easy enough to produce at least some evidence of, but none has turned up. > [@](#): > > You wish to project that that rebuttal applies to other unrelated statements even though you conceed he is an expert on undercover work. I assume he’s expert on undercover work, but there’s not a reason in the world he should know whether Plame’s friends and neighbors knew of her employment with the CIA on July 13, 2003. Yet he was willing to be interviewed by the Washington Times and tell their reporter that most of her friends and neighbors knew she was CIA. That’s an extremely serious strike against his credibility, and until it’s cleared up, it casts a cloud over anything else he says about this case. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/423 "2006-09-09T22:50:12Z")
In addition to the stain from coming into contact with the odious _Washington Times_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/424 "2006-09-10T01:07:42Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] But, by all accounts, she **was** very good. So, what does this tell you? The logical conclusion was that she wasn’t very deep undercover at all, and telling Wilson was no big deal. Her undercover status, “no big deal,” according to her own actions. [/quote] What it tells me is that (a) Joe Wilson had a long list of security clearances, (b) this was a guy she thought she might be marrying soon, (c) she should get this on the table in their relationship at some point, and (d) that point was earlier with someone who had all those security clearances than it would have been if it had been you or me. And frankly, I don’t give a flip. This is only relevant to the question of whether Plame’s CIA status was known prior to 7/14/03 if you can show that either Wilson was in fact a poor choice of person to trust and proceeded to ‘out’ her before that date, or that Wilson was hardly the only one that Plame revealed her CIA affiliation to. > [@](#): > > Nice job handwaving there, Chico. Well, none of the items you presented was germane to the claim you were making, which was that Joe Wilson outed Valerie Plame sometime between their second date and the publication of Novak’s column on 7/14/03. > [@](#): > > Answer the question. I think I’ve established the unreliability of Rustman as a witness. Just because you want to bring up some side issue doesn’t mean we all have to play. > [@](#): > > Feel free to stick a broomstick up your ass sideways. And if you want people to debate with you any new side issues that you care to bring up, I’ll give you a hint: this isn’t the way. > [@](#): > > It’s a germaine question. Her competance applies directly her actions. If she’s competant her lack of care concerning her cover tells us something. Ooh, it tells us _something_. Well, that changes _everything_. (Maybe ‘that’ is really 9/11, wearing a clever disguise!) Anyway, just because a question you raise shows ‘something’ doesn’t mean I have to care about it. Your game here seems to be one of bringing in more and more side-issues as you cease contesting other points. I’m not interested in your side issues. See you in some other thread, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/425 "2006-09-10T01:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Please quote me where I make that claim, oh builder of strawmen, twister of words, bearer of false witness, duke of disingenuosity. [/QUOTE] Needless to say, this isn’t going to change my mind about joining you in a trip down Side Issue Alley. > [@Scylla](#): > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > So, did Wilson ‘out’ her to anyone, before Novakula outed her to the freakin’ world?? You may say “not exactly impressive security,” but did this blow her cover? You have no evidence that it did. > > Yes, I do. And then you proceed to cite a bunch of irrelevant crap. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/426 "2006-09-10T01:16:52Z")
Meant to post this earlier, but apparently it didn’t post: [QUOTE=elucidator] I take it by your phrasing that you would like to suggest that this is somehow relevent. Of course, the crucial question is _which_ years. [/QUOTE] Well, according to Rustman: > [@](#): > > "Well, Valerie went through the – came in as a career trainee into the Agency, and then went through the training program down at the Farm, and I was her first supervisor when she actually had a real job at headquarters, and she worked for me there for about a year. Since she started at the CIA directly out of college in 1985, that would presumably put it at sometime in the 1985-87 timeframe, depending on how long the trainee/training programs took. IOW, a decade before the events that he claims blew her cover. Which explains why friend **Scylla** believes he could authoritatively say that those things blew her cover: I guess he was at such a remove that he could evaluate impartially these things he knew nothing about in any official capacity. And he would of course know in detail whether her friends and neighbors in 2003 knew she was CIA prior to Novak’s column, despite his CIA career having ended some years previously. Good night, and good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/427 "2006-09-10T01:21:41Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I’m not interested in your side issues. See you in some other thread, unfortunately. [/QUOTE] Ok. So you’re refusing to answer. Fuck off, then. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737/428 "2006-09-10T02:08:42Z")
By the way…you asked for the quote? Remember? Right there above. Time for your weasel dance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wherein-scylla-admonishes-the-left-wing-for-casting-plame-upon-rove/370737.md?page=21)