# Where's MY $3 billion? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2001, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319 "2001-06-19T12:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/1 "2001-06-19T12:28:04Z")
As much of a vehement non-smoker as I am, I can’t believe I’m put in the position of defending a tobacco company . . . but I _try_ to be a person of principle, and I believe in individual responsibility. I am absolutely aghast that a jury has awarded a lifelong smoker $3 billion – **$3 billion** – for his own stupidity. I can only hope that this award comes way, _way_ down on appeal. This moron started smoking in 1957, when he was 13. Seven years later, the Surgeon General’s Warning began appearing on cigarette packs. Did he stop? Hell, no. He smoked **at least** 2 packs a day for the next 40 years. And it’s not as if the dangers of smoking only popped, fully-formed, into existence in 1964. People were well aware of the health risks for several decades before that. And what does he get for this stupidity, this exercise in incredibly poor judgement? Well, for one thing, he got lung cancer, which I’m truly sorry for – I wouldn’t wish it on anybody, but I do recognize that it often happens because of activities fully within one’s control. I took on a slightly increased risk of prostate cancer when I got a vasectomy, but I weighed the risk and took it. But he also go **$3 billion** for this stupidity. I am sick and tired of seeing smokers, who make the decision to smoke even in the fact of clear and obvious health risks, _rewarded_ for this goddamned bad judgement. I want **my** $3 billion. I had parents who both smoked until I was 15 years old, and they breathed that shit in my face all the time. Both of my maternal grandparents smoked. The aunt and uncle who I saw most frequently both smoked. My sister started when she was 12. I was surrounded by a cloud of this foul crap for half of my life. And yet, againt all the odds, I never started. Never even **tried**. For all I know, a cigarette provides a feeling ten thousand times greater than the best orgasm you can conceive of, but I’ll never know, because I’m never going to stick one of the foul things in my mouth. Throughout my life, I’ve had to put up with the morons who smoke in the no-smoking sections. I’ve had to empty my parents’ filthy ashtrays. I’ve had to wash dishes and deal with the disgusting pigs who butt them out in their **food** , for chrissakes. I’ve had to come home from gigs so inundated and permeated by that smell that I have to shower and wash my clothes before I puke. I’ve had to wade through the seas of butts left by impolite smokers all over the streets, the sidewalks, the Metro stations, and everywhere else. So, for all this inconvenience, I’ll take my $3 billion now, thanks. Or not – whatever. But stop rewarding people for their own bad judgement. Don’t stop trying to curb tobacco use; by all means, create a market in which the social undesirability and expense of smoking far outweighs the benefit. But this other crap has to stop. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/2 "2001-06-19T12:53:45Z")
My stepfather smoked until I was 16. My mother’s grandparents smoked. My father and his wife _both_ smoked, which means whenever I had to go visit him I had to ride around in a Pontiac Sunbird, windows rolled up, with two people smoking. Illinois didn’t pass Clean Air legislation until I was around 14. It still isn’t very comprehensive; people can still smoke in restaurants, bowling alleys, and in certain places of business if the boss allows it (I was in a furniture store where the boss allowed the salesmen to smoke _on the job_ :eek: ). They won’t be getting my business. I don’t want $3 billion. Give me $100 million (after taxes) and we’ll call it a day. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/3 "2001-06-19T13:28:34Z")
I’m just circling, waiting in the wings for the the “second-hand-smoke” cases to begin. I might get in on those. Yeah, baby. Like **rasta** , I don’t want much, I’d be happy with a $1MM. In fact, for $500k, I’ll forget I even brought it up. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/4 "2001-06-19T13:50:55Z")
This shit just chaps my hide. I agree with the OP 100%. This guy is being rewarded for one stupidty, probably because the jury felt sorry for him because he was dying. “But I didn’t know it was bad for me”. It’s smoke. Did you think it was gonna be good? Plus they’ve had warnings on the packs and on the ad’s for what? 40 years? Have you ever heard of them refered to as “cancer sticks”? “But they lied about the nicotine”. So what? Nobody believed them. If you say you believed them, you’re lying. “But I couldn’t quit”. The moron stopped after he got cancer, which leads me to believe he could have quit _before_ he got cancer. He rolled the dice. He gets what he gets. The tobacco company _gave you what you wanted_. You knew there were risks, but you didn’t think it would happen to you. I’m sorry you got cancer and sorry you’re dying, but you did it to yourself. [sub]The preceding was the psychotic opinion of **spooje** [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/5 "2001-06-19T14:36:35Z")
I agree for the most part, but: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by pldennison_ > he got lung cancer, which I’m truly sorry for > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by spooje_ > I’m sorry you got cancer and sorry you’re dying I think this is the problem…we need to stop expressing any sympathy. In my opinion, “I’m sorry” is not an appropriate response. You screwed up. If I’m sympathetic to anyone, it’s the tobacco company. Stop taking their money because they gave you what you wanted. You deserve no help paying your medical bills. You deserve no special treatment during your final years. You certainly don’t deserve any money (let alone ridiculous sums like $3billion). [RANT] He’s dying a horrible painful death, and I’m **not** sorry about it at all. He made the choice. If he feels he needs relief from his horrible demise, there are faster ways of committing suicide than smoking. I’ll reserve my sympathy for more deserving people, like [this little girl](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=74221) who couldn’t defend herself, instead of wasting it on stupid people. [/RANT] ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/6 "2001-06-19T15:58:32Z")
I’ll opt in on the second hand smoke cases. I’ll take a few hundred million, after taxes. Oh, and since he actually got a jury to go along with him, Congratulations! More power to him! Just makes it easier for the rest of us. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/7 "2001-06-19T20:03:20Z")
I breathe in the cigarette smoke of five of my coworkers every day. Grace a Dieu that nobody in my family smokes (mother’s asthmatic) and that I live in a non-smoking dorm, but people around campus near the entrances to buildings, sometimes it’s like dry ice the smoke’s so thick. Give me $50 million after taxes and I’ll be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/8 "2001-06-19T20:56:09Z")
Growing up, I had weak lungs. My father smoked like a damn house on fire. Today, I have weaker lungs. I’ll let the tobacco folks off easy: 50 grand, and I’ll even buy them lunch. _ **Thee billion dollars!?** _ Now _that_ makes the Baby Jesus cry… ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/9 "2001-06-19T21:34:48Z")
I saw an article about thus case, and IIRC, the moron claimed to have discovered the dangers of smoking in the mid-1990s. WTF? The dangers of smoking have been common knowledge for decades, and he claims not to have known all this time? Where has he been living? Mars? I don’t care how hard the tobacco companied tried to convince people that smoking wasn’t bas for you. Everyone with any common sense knew better than to believe them. Conclusion: This fuckhead doesn’t deserve a penny. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/10 "2001-06-19T21:48:12Z")
Wow…whole lotta hostility goin’ on, here. Couple quick points. Yeah, he quit after he got cancer. It took cancer to scare him sufficiently to overcome his addiction. Tell me, oh incredibly judgmental folks…have all of you here given up fast food? Red meat? Cheese, butter, almost all fats, and definitely most saturated fats? Eating 5-7 servings of greenvegetables daily? Are ya joggin’ daily, workin’ out with weights? No? And when you get heart disease, are we supposed to give a flying fuck that you’re dead or dying? When you show up with colon cancer, are we supposed to feel SORRY for you? And don’t tell me it’s different…even though it is. There’s nothing physically addictive about being a Mcdonald’s munchin’ couch potato. We all make mistakes. We all take risks. We are all strong in some ways, weak in others. I’m not referring in any way to the monetary award, (which is mostly about screwing the tobacco companies, not rewarding him), but to the incredibly ugly attitudes some of you are displaying towards this man’s suffering. Frankly, I think you have a whole lotta nerve. Of course, if you are perfect in every conceivable way, I feel sorry for you. Must be quite a burden. :rolleyes: stoid finally a non-smoker. But it took 26 years. I guess I’ll “deserve” it if I ever develop lung cancer, eh? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/11 "2001-06-19T22:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Tell me, oh incredibly judgmental folks…have all of you here given up fast food? Red meat? Cheese, butter, almost all fats, and definitely most saturated fats? Eating 5-7 servings of greenvegetables daily? Are ya joggin’ daily, workin’ out with weights? No? And when you get heart disease, are we supposed to give a flying fuck that you’re dead or dying? When you show up with colon cancer, are we supposed to feel SORRY for you? > \*\* I understand your point as regards those who would fail to show sympathy to a person with a horrible disease. But as to the actual OP, to the best of my knowledge, none of the people in this thread or anyone else who maintains these bad habits has tried to collect $3 Billion from the Hostess Company. **Stoid** , addiction or no, we _choose_ to smoke. (Well, you _chose_ to smoke. And I’m _choosing_ to try to quit – I’m just not very good at it yet.) When I started smoking at 14, I knew cigarettes were bad for me. And I knew that they are both pharmacologically and behaviorally addictive. I know it now. The lies of the tobacco companies notwithstanding, _ **no sentient person can possibly smoke even one cigarette and not instantly know that the product is a health threat!! No sentient person can feel the pang for another cigarette and not understand that they are addictive!!** _ When a bad outcome predictably occurs, to sue the company which provided you with that product as if there is some sort of defect is simply preposterous. You might as well sue the match company because you started a fire. So read this, tobacco company lawyers: I hereby affirmatively and irrevocably waive any claim I may have which arises from the health consequences of normal consumption of your products as designed. Give my $3 Billion to NASCAR or something. I didn’t earn it. ---
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/12 "2001-06-19T22:27:20Z")
The sad thing about this is that the gates are open for HUGE punitive damages against tobacco companies. Before, there were much smaller damages, but this sets a pretty dangerous precedent. I would like to become a judge, just so I can tell all these dumb fucks with their frivolous lawsuits to get the Hell out of my court room so I can see people who are actually in NEED of some judicial service. Since when are Americans a bunch of fucking babies? Maybe it’s just because I’m young and idealistic, but I though America was based on independence and freedom. Now we’re just a bunch of big babies that are completely unwilling to claim responsibility for ANY of our actions. I’m not sure whether society or our current legislative and judicial systems are to blame, but someone has got to show some fucking backbone. Everyone in the United States is fully aware of the dangers of smoking tobacco. They are products I can think of that **actually say on the packaging: Under normal use, this will probably kill you**. I just hope some judge knocks the damages down to so little, the fucking greedy idiot victicrat can’t afford a coffin. If I get colon cancer from eating too many Big Macs, I promise I won’t sue McDonalds. If I trip on a shoelace and break my neck, I won’t sue Nike. If I drink a big bottle of Drano and everyhing below my lungs is liquified, I won’t sue then either. And, if I smoke cigarettes every day, knowing full well that they will kill me, I promise I won’t pretend to be a victim then either. ---
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/13 "2001-06-19T22:30:31Z")
This: They are products I can think of Should say: They are the only products I can think of ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/14 "2001-06-19T22:39:55Z")
Clarification. Two points at issue, at least for me: 1. When people do things they have been told are bad for them, and then bad results occur, do they deserve the bad results? Are they undeserving of sympathy for their suffering? No. Because if that is true, then the only people on earth who deserve our compassion are perfect people who never make mistakes, and I don’t know any of those. (By the way, among you people who are without sympathy for smokers, are you also the people who think gay men who get AIDS deserve it because they had unprotected sex? ) 2. The OP: Isn’t it awful that some guy sued the tobacco companies and won, when he knew what a mistake his was making by smoking? This is debatable, actually. But from my point of view, I think the tobacco companies have acted reprehensibly in their pursuit of profit. My feeling is, if you think DRUG DEALERS are disgusting, then you are being intellectually inconsistent if you do not find tobacco companies JUST as disgusting. Because they are, in their effect, identical. So just check your ethics and your politics real closely to see if you are being honest. God, the more I think about this, the more disgusted I get. I sure as hell hope that none of you who are so outraged by this verdict are the same people who think that drug dealers are evil and should be taken out and shot for “hooking kids”, because if you are, then you are towering hypocrites. Grrrr… stoid ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/15 "2001-06-19T22:45:41Z")
Gee, Stoid, since exactly **one** person in the thread (Beelzebubba) has insinuated that the person in the OP got exactly what he deserved, and in fact I explicitly said that I **don’t** wish lung cancer on anyone, I have to wonder exactly who you’re talking to. Oh, wait, I don’t have to wonder–you’re talking to yourself, and your few admirers, reinforcing for yourself once again what a morally superior person you are. What other reason to bring up the complete _non sequiturs_ involving McDonald’s, AIDS and drug dealers? Let’s all make sure we pass Stoid’s litmus tests before we ever complain about anything, because she’s got our numbers!! For the record, I believe lung cancer is a tragic, but ultimately foreseeable, consequence of smoking. I don’t want anyone to get it (what with people in my family having died from it, doncha know), but if you smoke for 40 years you also lose the right to be surprised or angry when you do. My positions regarding homosexuality and drug legalization are so well-known from my previous posts that I won’t even dignify your crap with an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/16 "2001-06-19T23:14:11Z")
10-year smoker here, up until about a month or so ago. At no point did I think I was immune from the dangers. Hell, the things have nicknames like “cancer sticks” and “coffin nails.” There’s a health warning on EVERY SINGLE PACK. It’s too bad he has lung cancer, my grandmother died of lung cancer from (guess what?) smoking so I;ve seen first-hand what it does to a person and it’s a shame, really. But I don’t see how he could NOT have known the risks to the tune of $3 billion dollars. I’d like to see the evidence that would convice a jury otherwise though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/17 "2001-06-19T23:15:22Z")
**Stoid** : Hmm. If I don’t think someone who smoked two packs a day for forty years deserves 3 billion dollars, then I must also be a hypocritical, homophobic supporter of the war on drugs? News to me. Excuse me while I throw out my bong and Anne Rampling erotica. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/18 "2001-06-19T23:40:43Z")
I don’t think that the guy should have got the $3,000,000,000.00 (it looks even more in figures) either, but I do think that the tobacco companies should be punished for their irresponsible behaviour. After the trial, one of the members of the jury said that they came up with this amount because it would be enough to hurt the tobacco company. I agree with this sentiment. But couldn’t the money be given to a charity or hospitals to help those who have become sick because of smoking. Or perhaps to pay the employees of tobacco companies _not_ to work - something like that. Something to undo just a little of the damage done, rather than reward someone for a stupid decision. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/19 "2001-06-19T23:56:34Z")
You know, I was sitting here, thinking **Stoid** was completely wrong, an absolutely pompous blathering jackass and totally full of shi…uh, herself, when it hit me: she’s right! Now that I see the error of my ways, I’m going to drink until I get cirrhosis of the liver and then sue the shit out of Bacardi, Budweiser and Miller. C’mon over folks, we’ll make a class-action affair. We’re gonna be _rich!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319/20 "2001-06-20T00:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrWhy \* > \*\*After the trial, one of the members of the jury said that they came up with this amount because it would be enough to hurt the tobacco company. I agree with this sentiment. > > \*\* And that is what it’s really about. It’s just a too-bad fact that it takes an injured party to bring the suit. stoid [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-3-billion/69319.md?page=2)