# Where's my fucking affordable health care, you fucking fuck? \[lame\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896 "2005-04-18T14:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![steveh46](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@steveh46](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steveh46)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/241 "2005-04-25T15:23:49Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Um, yeah, one Irish medical student’s opinion (and Ireland only ranks 19th in terms of healthcare, according to her own post) is very persuasive. :rolleyes: What part of “The USA spends about twice the proportion of its GNP on healthcare as the UK- approximately 12% vs 6%. The USA spends a higher proportion of its GDP on health than any other country in the world.” is opinion? Facts are facts, but apparently you don’t know the difference between fact and opinion. Take a look at the OECD numbers: “The United States continues to top the OECD ranking for overall healthcare spending at $4900 per capita in 2001 - more than twice the OECD average of $2100 ( Chart 1) . … Health expenditure as a percentage of GDP in the United States jumped from 13.1% in 2000 to 13.9% in 2001, largely reflecting the American economic slowdown.” [OECD Health Data 2003 Show Health Expenditures at an All-time High](http://www.oecd.org/document/39/0,2340,en_2649_201185_2789735_1_1_1_1,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/242 "2005-04-25T15:28:33Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > When the reporters ask you if the sarcasm caused any damage as it wooshed above your head, can you mention my name? 😃 Whoops. You sarcasm was so subtle as to indistinguishable from conservative debate. You just can’t tell the players without a program around here anymore. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/243 "2005-04-25T15:57:57Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Whoops. You sarcasm was so subtle as to indistinguishable from conservative debate. You just can’t tell the players without a program around here anymore. 😉 Honestly, I _tried_ to make it sound over-the-top so people _wouldn’t_ mistake it for the real thing. Is it my fault if the real thing is more over-the-top than even a real live gay drama queen the spoof? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/244 "2005-04-25T15:58:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Honestly, I _tried_ to make it sound over-the-top so people _wouldn’t_ mistake it for the real thing. Is it my fault if the real thing is more over-the-top than even a real live gay drama queen the spoof? “_can make_ the spoof”, dammit… ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/245 "2005-04-25T16:22:42Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > And you think it would be any different under a UHC plan? :rolleyes: > > We would just be entering a whole new realm of bureaucracy. I know you can’t be saying that Americans are just too stupid to figure out what the rest of the industrialized world seems to handle quite well. Fact: The US is the only first-world country without some sort of tax-subsidized universal healthcare. Fact: The US spends a bigger percentage of its healthcare funds on expenses not related to medicine than any other first-world country. You’re being _had_, **flickster**. You’ve been conned into paying more for less. And the only thing you have to show for it is that you’re sure the extra money you’re paying for healthcare does not, in fact, go to caring for anyone’s health - neither yours or that of those less fortunate than you. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/246 "2005-04-25T16:24:05Z")
> [@Digital Stimulus](#): > > Did anyone else see _60 Minutes_ tonight? There was a segment on “medical tourism”, where people travelled to Thailand or India for medical treatment. Awesome. If my wife edns up needing surgery, I should suggest we do it overseas. “So baby, I think we should do the operation in Thailand.” “Thailand??? Why?” “Because, it’ll, be, uh, cheaper, and…” > [@milroyj](#): > > So instead, you’re happy to go without, and leech off the rest of us, is that it? > [@milroyj](#): > > Do they deserve basic care at the expense of others? Fuck you, you excreable asshole. I wouldn’t wish ill health or impending financial ruin on anybody, but you know what? Your smug, self-satisfied worship of your own avarice makes me seriously consider giving up my Buddha-like serenity, if only for the couple of seconds it would take to tell you that I’m not going to waste the piss to put you out if you were on fire. > [@steveh46](#): > > What part of “The USA spends about twice the proportion of its GNP on healthcare as the UK- approximately 12% vs 6%. The USA spends a higher proportion of its GDP on health than any other country in the world.” is opinion? Don’t bother. You’re new here, so you may not know that milroy considers it his mission in life to be as socially repulsive as possible. I don’t recall any set of facts making a dent in his skull that didn’t somehow justify him stuffing rolls of hundred dollar bills into his own codpiece. It’s far less frustrating to just pick up his turds and throw them back at him. ---
**Author:** ![steveh46](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@steveh46](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steveh46)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/247 "2005-04-25T17:28:33Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Every state in the union offers FREE health insurance for children of lower income families, usually the requirements to qualify slide with family size. For example, here in Maryland, a family of four is eligible for free coverage for their children\* ( and maternity for the mother too ) if they make less than $37,700-200% of the federal poverty line ( and maternity coverage alone if they make less than $47,125 ). In addition, they can get full coverage for the children for only $41/month if they make between $37,700 and $47,125 and for only $51/month from $47,125 up to $56,550. Similar programs exist, as I said, in _every other state_. Can we please skip the “won’t somebody please think of the children??” argument? In this case at least it is a complete red herring. > > [List of Services] > > Not too shabby > > In addition, the MHIP program offers full coverage to any Marylander who is turned down or issued substandard coverage by private insurers because of health issues. The rates are quite competitive with private insurance. ( This type of program is not offered in every state ) > > Wanna know the biggest problem with these programs? Getting people to take advantage of them. Really folks, there is a lot of stuff out there available for just the folks on whose behalf you are arguing. Lots of people don’t use it as it is. I think you’re way too optimistic about Medicaid (I assume that’s what you’re talking about). In theory Medicaid covers all the services you mention. In reality, reimbursement is set so low that many beneficiries can’t get treatment. One example is dental care. Most dentists simply won’t see Medicaid patients because reimbursement levels are ridiculously low. Legislators may say they are providing coverage, but it doesn’t make it so. Nowadays dentistry is considered primarily cosmetic, but when all the teeth in your head rot out it’s a big health problem and just try to get a decent paying job in the service industry with no teeth. I once heard Uwe Reinhardt make the comment that if legislators think Medicaid payments are set high enough, they ought to go out and find a pediatrician who will see the legislator’s kids at that rate. They wouldn’t be able to do it. Speaking of Uwe, who is a professor of econ and public policy at Princeton, here’s what he had to say about why people don’t sign up for Medicaid or SCHIP: “A peculiar feature of the public programs designed to cover otherwise uninsured, low-income, non-elderly Americans—Medicaid and SHIP—is that millions of Americans eligible for these public programs are not enrolled in them. One recent estimate put that number as high as 14 million. Most probably these individuals are not aware of their entitlement, or they have not been able to navigate the bureaucratic obstacles put up by these programs. Enrolling these individuals into Medicaid and SCHIP would not require new legislation. It would, however, entail additional outlays by the federal and state governments, above current and projected future baseline levels.” [snip] If I had to put a number on it, my rough and ready guess would be that some 20 to 25 million of the currently uninsured in this country most likely would need substantial public subsidies to be able to afford health insurance of the sort known to the rest of Americans. Evidently, an additional 10 to 15 million need help navigating the road to public programs to which they are already entitled. The remainder of the uninsured probably could purchase health insurance on their own, if they had access to an efficient market for individual health insurance policies (as distinct from the group-policies bought by employers for their employees).” [A Primer for Journalists on Reforming American Health Care](http://www.wws.princeton.edu/~chw/papers/reinhardt_healthreform.pdf) Speaking from personal experience, signing up for SCHIP is not that easy and some states purposefully make it difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/248 "2005-04-25T18:04:16Z")
Medicade is a Federal program. MCHP is state run, although if it’s subsidized by Medicade I don’t know. I’ve placed numerous clients on the MCHP and MHIP plans when they qualify (in spite of the fact that doing so makes me no money ), in fact MHIP provided full coverage for my wife’s pregnancy and the birth of our son, and I’ve never really had anyone complain that they were not getting adequate coverage. Since this is a state to state thing, however, I realize that YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![steveh46](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@steveh46](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steveh46)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/249 "2005-04-25T20:11:03Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Medicade is a Federal program. MCHP is state run, although if it’s subsidized by Medicade I don’t know. I’ve placed numerous clients on the MCHP and MHIP plans when they qualify (in spite of the fact that doing so makes me no money ), in fact MHIP provided full coverage for my wife’s pregnancy and the birth of our son, and I’ve never really had anyone complain that they were not getting adequate coverage. Since this is a state to state thing, however, I realize that YMMV. Medicaid is a State/Federal program. MCHP is the Maryland version of SCHIP (State Children’s Health Insurance Program), which is also a State/Federal Program. MHIP appears to be a State program. I looked at the Subscriber rates on the web for MHIP. For someone under 30 with a family, the very lowest monthly premium would be $317/month (or $3800/year) with a deductible of at least $1,000 and OOP cap of $9,000. In other terms, if they have any health problems, they can expect to pay at least $4-5,000 per year. If they have a severe health problem costs can be nearly $10 grand (not sure if premiums are counted as OOP, they’re usually not). For a low-income family that’s a big hurt! Glad you had a good experience with it, but that is a State program in a pretty progressive state. Others face much worse scenarios. I appreciate your rational response, which is rare on boards such as this. You and I have a much broader knowledge base than the average consumer, and the whole system is still confusing to us. Most people don’t realize that Medicare is a Federal program, Medicaid is actually 50 different State/Federal Programs, that there is an SCHIP, etc. States are trying desperately to reduce their Medicaid costs and, as a consequence, we’ll see far more people booted off the rolls. [States Rein In Health Costs](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-medicaid24apr24,0,3416218.story?coll=la-home-headlines) At the same time, they’re freezing SCHIP enrollment to control costs. Not a good situation and one that will leave us with evermore uninsured. There is not a Medicare crisis or Medicaid crisis, there is a health care crisis and currently no one is offering a real solution. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/250 "2005-04-25T20:40:37Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So instead, you’re happy to go without, and leech off the rest of us, is that it? You’re already paying for it, moron. Why should I pay for NOTHING? There is NOTHING that the insurance I was offered would have covered, dumbass. Maybe a check-up, that’s it. It didn’t cover dental or eyes, didn’t cover any preexisting conditions, or prescriptions. So either way, I still be “leeching”, as you put it. Good god, you’re fucking thick. BTW, after all your pissing in the Schiavo threads, you ARE aware that Terri was on Medicaid, right? So she was leeching off of you and you were paying for HER care! You’re not just an asshole, you’re a hypocritical, stupid and inconsistant asshole! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/251 "2005-04-25T21:42:02Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > If the US system worked so that everyone had access to healthcare, if 1/3 of bankruptcies in the USA weren’t caused by medical bills, then yes, the system you have might be considered to work adequately. Nitpick: [_Half_](http://www.somersetmedicalcenter.com/114380.cfm) of bankruptcies in the USA are caused by medical bills. > [@](#): > > In a study of a nationally representative sample of bankruptcy filers, researchers at Harvard University found that illness and medical bills helped spur between 46 percent and 54 percent of bankruptcies. In more than three quarters of these cases, people had health insurance at the time they or a family member became sick ill or suffered an injury. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/252 "2005-04-25T21:55:59Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > snip > And there’s nothing wrong with getting some healthcare for your labor. You are perfectly free to negotiate better benefits from your current employer, or to find a different job. ``` Well, sure....IF your employer allows for you to commence such negotiation. Or IF you have a group to negotiate on your behalf and they you a deal (which doesn't necessarily guarantee that it will be a good one or one that will suit everybody). Find a different job--Well, yes again. IF there is another job around that is available, and is one that you are qualified for and isn't so far away that you'd use up your extra profits paying for gasoline and wear n' tear. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/253 "2005-04-25T22:44:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > There is NOTHING that the insurance I was offered would have covered, dumbass…( it ) didn’t cover any preexisting conditions. If it was offered by an employer, this is illegal you know. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/254 "2005-04-25T23:23:07Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > If it was offered by an employer, this is illegal you know. Really? Is this a recent development? I have been denied coverage of pre-existing conditions, but that was over ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![steveh46](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@steveh46](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steveh46)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/255 "2005-04-25T23:44:56Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Really? Is this a recent development? I have been denied coverage of pre-existing conditions, but that was over ten years ago. Yes, HIPAA, better known as the health record privacy law, limited pre-existing condition exclusion. Became effective in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/256 "2005-04-26T01:05:33Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Really? Is this a recent development? I have been denied coverage of pre-existing conditions, but that was over ten years ago. When I hire on with new companies and sign up for my insurance, I am NEVER asked about pre-existing conditions. I have diabetes, so I listen for it and I ask questions… But these jobs were all in California. Maybe we’re just more enlightened here. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/257 "2005-04-26T01:28:29Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > If it was offered by an employer, this is illegal you know. I wasn’t aware of that at the time. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/258 "2005-04-26T03:13:30Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Your smug, self-satisfied worship of your own avarice makes me seriously consider giving up my Buddha-like serenity, if only for the couple of seconds it would take to tell you that I’m not going to waste the piss to put you out if you were on fire. Avarice: _excessive or insatiable desire for wealth or gain._ FTR, I am not, by any means, wealthy, nor do I desire it. I would just like to keep my own meager earnings, and use them as I see fit. You know, like paying my own bills, including for healthcare. Too bad more of you refuse to adopt the same attitude of paying your own way in the world. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/259 "2005-04-26T03:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] You’re already paying for it, moron. Why should I pay for NOTHING? There is NOTHING that the insurance I was offered would have covered, dumbass. Maybe a check-up, that’s it. It didn’t cover dental or eyes, didn’t cover any preexisting conditions, or prescriptions. [QUOTE] Listen, dumbass, you don’t want to pay for NOTHING, (inadequate health insurance) but at the same time, you want me to pay for NOTHING (health insurance for other people, inlcuding ones like yourself who can’t or won’t pay for it)? Where DID you get this sense of entitlement? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/260 "2005-04-26T03:25:21Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Too bad more of you refuse to adopt the same attitude of paying your own way in the world. :rolleyes: I would have had a lot less of an issue with paying my own way for healthcare (which I did, by the way, even though it took me bloody forever) if it didn’t cost $4,500 for the first 24 hours of care for a frickin’ leg fracture. I was fully employed at the time, but not exactly rolling in dough, having just gotten out of school, and that was, oh, the equivalent of nearly a year’s rent. My insurance hadn’t kicked in yet, but at least my job had insurance - lots of jobs, even full-time ones, don’t. Is that proportional or reasonable - a year’s rent in excahnge for 24 hours of care for something that would have been treated exactly the same way 100 years ago? And a broken leg in most cases is a relatively minor thing - what about the bills for even a moderately severe car accident, let alone a lifelong chronic condition? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896.md?page=14)